Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ayana 04-29-05, 03:27 AM	I need to choose 2 L7, 1 L6 (my last L6) and 1 L5 (my last L5) spells. Here's what I have so far: L0: Acid Splash, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost, Read Magic L1: Burning Hands, Comprehend Languages, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Silent Image, Summon Monster I (PrC-added special) L2: Invisibility, Melf's Acid Arrow, Mirror Image, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray L3: Fireball, Lightningball (Meta-d lightning fireball), Magic Circle against Law, Suggestion L4: Dimensional Anchor, Enervation, Evard's Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility L5: Cone of Cold, Feeblemind, Hold Monster L6: Disintegrate, Greater Dispel Magic Feats: Skill Focus (Spellcraft) Spell Focus (Evocation) Empower Spell Improved Toughness Energy Substitution (Electricity) Energy Admixture Education (Kn Arc, Kn Planes) Twin Spell At this time I will also be taking a second Spell Focus feat (to meet Archmage requirement) so there's some flexibility there based on what spells I will choose / I have. The campaign we're in is taking place in the Forgotten Realms planes (planar travel looks like a big part of the future, tho our wizard and cleric have the approriate spells). The campaign is fairly balanced in terms of combat vs non-combat. The books allowed are 3.5 stuff + FR stuff, tho if you think of something really good from others WotC books let me know, my DM might allow it. My save DCs are quite high (CHA bonus +13). In the party we have a cleric able to cast L8 spells, a wizard capable of casting L7 (has all PHB spells in his book), a rogue/monk and fighter types. Replacing a spell might or might not be an option under the rules we use (I'll have to ask him this weekend). The ones I'm considering at the moment are: 5: (none that particularly appeals) 6: True Seeing 7: Nybor's Stern Reproof (FR), Plane Shift, Greater Teleport, Summon Monster VII
smrtgmp 04-29-05, 05:08 AM	What sources can you draw from? I'll only suggest core spells for the time being. For 5th level I would say telekinesis or wall of force. If you're playing 3.5 you might want to swap out cone of cold for the one you dont pick now when you get the chance. IMO they are far more useful, and CoC isnt the best 5th level spell around. At 6th level mass suggestion and true seeing are both good picks. I would probably go for the latter. For 7th level I'm a huge fan of limited wish. It can really save your ass in a lot of situations. Keep in mind that it can duplicate 5th level spells from different spell lists, and that heal is a 5th level adept spell. Being able to inflict an automatic -7 to an opponents next save can mean the difference between life and death for a party. Have an ally ready a save or die to be cast after you hit them with the penalty. The 300xp cost means you cant use it willy nilly, but its really not that big of a price, given all it can do. Waves of exhaustion and reverse gravity are both great spells. Neither allows a save, and both can be defestating. It would be hard to go wrong with force cage or greater teleport. I would probably take greater teleport as one of the two 7th level spells you choose, as you currently have no means of extra-dimensional travel. GT only has a verbal component, which means its great for getting out of a grapple, among other things. BTW-I noticed you listed lightning ball as one of your spells known. You dont have to use up a spell known slot to use the lightning ball, you mearly apply the energy substitution feat to the spell when it is cast. You can do this for any spell that does energy damage; you dont have to pick a specific spell.
The Simbul 04-29-05, 09:17 AM	5- Telekinesis, also swap out Hold Monster or Feeblemind for Teleport*. 6- Prismatic Eye (PGtF) 7- Limited Wish, Delayed Blast Fireball Greater Teleport is rarely worth it as a Sorcerer, primarily since you can just cast multiple Teleport spell if you do have a mishap, and most people do not commonly teleport to unfamiliar locations. Dont worry about Plane Shift if another spellcaster is in the party, and even then unless you are doing some serious planar travel, I would just wait until you can select Gate as a known spell since it is more versatile. Telekinesis (grapple) is more versatile than Hold Monster, although while its effects are not as debilitating, it is more deadly against spellcasters and it doesnt have the mind-affecting descriptor. However on the other hand it does require concentration, and a melee-oriented character or one with sufficient escape artist ranks can escape the grapple easily. it really depends on the kind of foe you are facing. Otiluke's Freezing Sphere is one of the most versatile 6th level spells. Not only can you do 20d6 cold damage (ranged touch, no save) to a single target, it also has other abilities and uses as well.
tarkin 04-29-05, 10:45 AM	You DEFINTELY need some kind of Teleport, Either Teleport, Greater Teleport, or Plane Shift. (or both Teleport and Plane Shift). I would also consider at least one of the Shadow Spells, either Shadow Evocation, or the Greater Shadow Conjuration. They are just usefull for duplicating so many other spells, and they don't cost XP like Limited Wish does. Magic Jar is also a good 5th level spell. Acid Fog, Mislead are two really great 6th level spells I would consider. If you don't get Mislead, consider getting Project Image (7th level version). Recap: 5: Teleport/Shadow Evocation/Magic Jar 6: Acid Fog/Mislead 7:Greater Teleport/Plane Shift, Project Image, Greater Shadow Conjuration
solbergb 04-29-05, 11:37 AM	You lack any kind of mobility magic. You seem ok on offense and defense, light on utility. I would suggest Overland Flight (or mass fly if you have access to non-core), Contingency, Limited Wish and Greater Teleport (or teleport instead of overland flight and something in a L7 slot that lets you do more than stand there with your land speed in combat) Telekenesis is also good. But you need a way to port out of grapples, you need a way to fly and contingency = sorcerer quicken spell for defensive buffs. (and unlike a wizard, if the contingency comes up, 10 minutes later you have it ready again) With limited wish you can get permanent arcane sight (with two castings and a small amount of xp) and permanent see invis (ditto). If you have more cash than xp, see if you can get scrolls of the two spells. With those running 24x7, you won't need true seeing, you'll be able to target "well enough".
Ayana 04-29-05, 04:49 PM	Thank you for the suggestions :) I'm allowed to draw from any WotC 3.5 source (presumably not from DL / Eberron / etc since we play in FR) as well from any non-updated 3.0 FR source. If something is really interesting from outside these sources that may be an option too, my DM is pretty flexible in allowing custom things (the PrC I have is an electricity based custom version of the Frost Mage). You dont have to use up a spell known slot to use the lightning ball, you mearly apply the energy substitution feat to the spell when it is cast. I know, however applying metamagic the casting time increases to 1 full round as a sorc so I learned pre-meta-ed (the wizard is fire-specialized so I preffer to focus on the other elements) Otiluke's Freezing Sphere is one of the most versatile 6th level spells. Not only can you do 20d6 cold damage (ranged touch, no save) to a single target, it also has other abilities and uses as well. What do you mean? My 3.5 PHB lists it as max 15d6 (15d8 against water elementals) with a reflex save but no SR. I would suggest Overland Flight (or mass fly if you have access to non-core) I forgot to mention magic from items. Both me and the rogue/monk have items that allow us to fly at will and the druid (whom I forgot to mention) can change into a ridable bird among other things as well as turn everyone into birds. I'm also planning to have the wizard make me an item with Dimension Door X/day next time we find a magical lab (for getting out of grapples, etc). You DEFINTELY need some kind of Teleport, Both planar locales we've been in so far have not had Teleport possible (no access to astral), and the wizard also has a staff with Greater Teleport on it that he's been using to move us around in other places. Limited wish looks like an interesting option, altough I tend to be wary of XP costs. Our battles generally last a short time so I tend to favor direct damage or save-or-die spells over the ones that deal damage or effects over several rounds (Acid Fog, Prismatic Eye)
smrtgmp 04-29-05, 05:00 PM	I know, however applying metamagic the casting time increases to 1 full round as a sorc so I learned pre-meta-ed (the wizard is fire-specialized so I preffer to focus on the other elements)Raising the cating time to 1 full round action doesnt really matter unles you're in melee range of someone with reach. All it means is that you can only cast the spell and take a 5 ft step rather than cast the spell and a full move action. In 99% of the fights I've been in, a full round casting time isnt much of a detriment. Its not like it has a casting time of 1 round (which would suck) What do you mean? My 3.5 PHB lists it as max 15d6 (15d8 against water elementals) with a reflex save but no SR.Simbul must have been talking 3.0. Polar Ray used to be a part of Freezing Sphere. Now its the worst 8th level spell ever. Since you have so many spellcasters in your group, you have a lot more leeway with your spell selections. I would go with whatever fits the flavor of you character (if you're going for a lightning mage PrC then maybe Chain Lightning would be good at 6th level) and that you think you will cast regularly. Let the wizard worry about the utility spells. I would also ask your DM if s/he will allow you to learn lightning versions of spells without learning the original first (lightning storm instead of meteor swarm). Although, I suppose that would kind of defeat the purpose of taking Energy Substitution.
tarkin 04-29-05, 05:22 PM	Regarding planar locales. If teleport does nto work, fine, ask about Plane Shift. Well worth it. (Note, if Teleport does not work, Greater Teleport should not either. Plane Shift is the version that should work) Acid Fog is NOT just a delayed damage spell. Read it again, after looking at Solid Fog. Here are the pertinent facts: 1) NO SR. Very important, especially at higher levels. This spell works on Golems, Demons, etc. (Even if they are immune to the acid, # 2 and #4 below still applies) 2) NO MOVEMENT. Again, very important, especially at higher levels. Not only are you doing damage, you are holding the enemey where they are, not allowing them to approach you. Incredibally usefull part of the spell. 3) NO SAVE for that 2d6 per round. 4) Total Concealment so the bad guy can't start using a touch attack or worse, an incorporeal attack against you. ------------------- This spell is welll worth it.
solbergb 04-29-05, 06:16 PM	Regarding limited wish.... Using it for permanency isn't any worse than casting permanency...the xp cost is > than the lim wish minimum. What is the value of always being able to see invisible, nearby extraplanar critters and all the buffs on your enemies within 120'? Priceless. Expecially since it saves you spells known that you don't have slots for. Limited wish is also the poor-man's "mage of the arcane order" except it works on every single spell list. Cleric dies? You can raise (or reincarnate) him. Need a restoration to save your buddy from the chaos beast transformation? You've got it. Want to cast Modify Memory to erase something bad you did from the NPC's memory...you got that too. For that matter...didn't learn Teleport, got grappled out of reach of your wizard? You can do something other than just die. The -7 to enemy next saves isn't bad either, if it is kill the enemy or face tpk. 300xp is less xp than getting killed. Yes it costs xp, so you don't use it casually. But it is by far the most important sorcerer spell on the entire list, even better than its big brother Wish.