Age the body... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Age the body... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yankee
10-09-03, 10:16 PM Does anyone have an idea for a spell that ages people? I'm thinking its about on par with a baleful polymorph, but I haven't thought it through for abuse...
Naturally, it would add to physical, not mental or metaphysical age though.
youspoonybard
10-09-03, 10:17 PM Touch of Idiocy looks like a good starting point...

That does 1d6 to all three mental stats.

Is this aging permanent or instantaneous (i.e. can it be dispelled)?
CrimsonRyoko
10-09-03, 10:59 PM How old?

Theres a spell called Natural Death that ages them into death that can never be reversed :)
Hypersmurf
10-09-03, 11:40 PM Theres a spell called Natural Death that ages them into death that can never be reversed :)

Masters of the Wild points out that a character who dies of old age can be Reincarnated, even though he can't be Raised or (True) Resurrected.

-Hyp.
youspoonybard
10-09-03, 11:49 PM And 3.5 Reincarnate specifically says old age is a no-no, if they're already dead.

Unless you're implying, since 3.5 True Reincarnate hasn't been "elaborated on", True Reincarnate is still good to go..... : P
ManTimeForgot
10-09-03, 11:53 PM No not even a true ressurection can return someone who has died of old age. The only spell(s) which might be able to do such a thing are wish and miracle. Wish might be able to do so by reverting time/reality to a previous state. With miracle a deity of life (or death and only one of those two) could potentially return a wayward soul back to the body that died of old age.

That is part of the reason aging spells were taken out, they are hard to counter. Youth spells and items would be even more broken in 3rd edition than they were in 2nd. In 3.5 one could accrue the mental bonuses from age, but keep a youthful body. Who needs timeless body?

Thank You all and have a nice day.
Signed,
The Man Time Forgot
bitnine
10-10-03, 12:02 AM Originally posted by Yankee

Naturally, it would add to physical, not mental or metaphysical age though.

If you're going to do that, I'd have it temporarily age the character to the next age category, or knock them out of they are venerable. After a while it wears off (or perhaps force them to cast Break Enchantment), it works on most races equally from human to elf, and it doesn't do anything too nuts.
Hypersmurf
10-10-03, 12:35 AM And 3.5 Reincarnate specifically says old age is a no-no, if they're already dead.

Ah, good. I never liked the MotW ruling anyway.

-Hyp.
Seeker95
10-10-03, 08:48 AM Sands of Time
Necromancy
Level: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 3, Time 3
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: see text
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 day / level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
The target of this spell is physically advanced into the middle of the next age category for his race. Middle Age creatures become Old; Old targets become Venerable; and the Venerable are moved to their maximum age and fall into a coma. All physical stats are adjusted accordingly, but mental stats remain unchanged. (Note: Stat changes due to aging are cumulative. See the chart on p. 109 in the 3.5 PHB)
The aging occurs over the course of the first hour of the spell's duration. A target cannot be placed under more than one casting of Sands of Time from the same caster at the same time. Rapid multiple aging advances require a coordinated effort.
There is no known range limit on this spell, although both the caster and the target must be on the same plane. The caster can end the spell at any time before the duration expires.
Material Components: An hourglass, a vial of quicksilver, and a piece of the target's body (blood, hiar, skin, tooth, etc.) The hourglass is the only component that is not consumed in the process of casting.
Talchar
10-10-03, 12:43 PM Seeker,

Remind me never to **** off a group of 5th level mages. I think your spell is a tad low level for what it does. Combine it with the spell Nightmare, and every high level wizard is doomed.
Seeker95
10-10-03, 03:41 PM Talchar, there are a number of things that would limit its effectiveness.

1. You would have to get a number of wizards to act in concert.
2. The spell does not cause death in and of itself
3. The spell can be countered with any number of dispel magic type of options (although I may need to add some specific ones as well.
4. Folks targeted by this spell tend to have lots of powerful friends.
5. You should be careful about upsetting any group of mages!

Lastly, assuming the mechanics stay the same, what level would you suggest? And would you change the duration in any way? As it is, it lasts almost a week. For every level you bump it up, you increase the minimum duration by 2 more days.
L33t Angel
10-10-03, 04:08 PM The hourglass is the only component that is not consumed in the process of casting.

Then the hourglass isn't a component, its a Focus. Not a big thing. :D
Seeker95
10-10-03, 07:18 PM Thanks L33t. Edited to reflect my new knowledge. ;)
Talchar
10-10-03, 09:23 PM hmmm what level? That is hard to judge. DnD really does not take into account cooperative magic in its spell system. It is basically an unlimited range bestow curse spell.

Assuming the victim is young.
3 Wizards = -6 STR, DEX, CON.
4 Wizards = Coma

Yes the target should have friends, but when determining a spell level the availablity of counter magics should be taken into consideration when increasing the spell level. Ie a spell you cannot counter should be considered a higher level. Defense in DnD tends to be more powerful then offense.

The lowest level unlimited range spell is 5th Dream and Nightmare. Nightmare leaves you fatigued, take 1D10 hp and unable to recover spells for a day. However, its save is drastically affected by the connection modifer.

I see this spell being a tad weaker then Nightmare (due to the save issue) but stronger then bestow curse ( the range is big deal) . I can see a enemy wizard using this spell with Nightmare to terrorize a PC party or a kingdom. So on balance I would place it at 5th level. High enough to keep it out of the hands of low level mages, but low enough level not to have such a high save that you could wipe out a party.

I would however, make it like bestow curse and not have it subject to dispel magic. With it being subject to dispel magic 4th level.
Yankee
10-11-03, 01:58 AM I was thinking something 4th level or so, but either permenant or instantanious. Doing it from afar doesn't seem to gel with most of the spells that I've seen, no matter how cool an idea it is. I mean, there is already a 4th level 'save twice or die' spell (phantasmal killer), so a 'save once or get old' spell doesn't seem overpowered. Not sure what to call it, but I think it belongs in the necromancy school. Hey, maybe have a mass or improved version at thigher levels...
Al2902
10-11-03, 06:55 AM There is a spell called Pass the Years in R&R. The victim ages 1 year/lvl, and it's PERMANENT.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yankee 10-09-03, 10:16 PM	Does anyone have an idea for a spell that ages people? I'm thinking its about on par with a baleful polymorph, but I haven't thought it through for abuse... Naturally, it would add to physical, not mental or metaphysical age though.
youspoonybard 10-09-03, 10:17 PM	Touch of Idiocy looks like a good starting point... That does 1d6 to all three mental stats. Is this aging permanent or instantaneous (i.e. can it be dispelled)?
CrimsonRyoko 10-09-03, 10:59 PM	How old? Theres a spell called Natural Death that ages them into death that can never be reversed :)
Hypersmurf 10-09-03, 11:40 PM	Theres a spell called Natural Death that ages them into death that can never be reversed :) Masters of the Wild points out that a character who dies of old age can be Reincarnated, even though he can't be Raised or (True) Resurrected. -Hyp.
youspoonybard 10-09-03, 11:49 PM	And 3.5 Reincarnate specifically says old age is a no-no, if they're already dead. Unless you're implying, since 3.5 True Reincarnate hasn't been "elaborated on", True Reincarnate is still good to go..... : P
ManTimeForgot 10-09-03, 11:53 PM	No not even a true ressurection can return someone who has died of old age. The only spell(s) which might be able to do such a thing are wish and miracle. Wish might be able to do so by reverting time/reality to a previous state. With miracle a deity of life (or death and only one of those two) could potentially return a wayward soul back to the body that died of old age. That is part of the reason aging spells were taken out, they are hard to counter. Youth spells and items would be even more broken in 3rd edition than they were in 2nd. In 3.5 one could accrue the mental bonuses from age, but keep a youthful body. Who needs timeless body? Thank You all and have a nice day. Signed, The Man Time Forgot
bitnine 10-10-03, 12:02 AM	Originally posted by Yankee Naturally, it would add to physical, not mental or metaphysical age though. If you're going to do that, I'd have it temporarily age the character to the next age category, or knock them out of they are venerable. After a while it wears off (or perhaps force them to cast Break Enchantment), it works on most races equally from human to elf, and it doesn't do anything too nuts.
Hypersmurf 10-10-03, 12:35 AM	And 3.5 Reincarnate specifically says old age is a no-no, if they're already dead. Ah, good. I never liked the MotW ruling anyway. -Hyp.
Seeker95 10-10-03, 08:48 AM	Sands of Time Necromancy Level: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 3, Time 3 Components: V, S, M, F Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: see text Target: One living creature Duration: 1 day / level Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: Yes The target of this spell is physically advanced into the middle of the next age category for his race. Middle Age creatures become Old; Old targets become Venerable; and the Venerable are moved to their maximum age and fall into a coma. All physical stats are adjusted accordingly, but mental stats remain unchanged. (Note: Stat changes due to aging are cumulative. See the chart on p. 109 in the 3.5 PHB) The aging occurs over the course of the first hour of the spell's duration. A target cannot be placed under more than one casting of Sands of Time from the same caster at the same time. Rapid multiple aging advances require a coordinated effort. There is no known range limit on this spell, although both the caster and the target must be on the same plane. The caster can end the spell at any time before the duration expires. Material Components: An hourglass, a vial of quicksilver, and a piece of the target's body (blood, hiar, skin, tooth, etc.) The hourglass is the only component that is not consumed in the process of casting.
Talchar 10-10-03, 12:43 PM	Seeker, Remind me never to **** off a group of 5th level mages. I think your spell is a tad low level for what it does. Combine it with the spell Nightmare, and every high level wizard is doomed.
Seeker95 10-10-03, 03:41 PM	Talchar, there are a number of things that would limit its effectiveness. 1. You would have to get a number of wizards to act in concert. 2. The spell does not cause death in and of itself 3. The spell can be countered with any number of dispel magic type of options (although I may need to add some specific ones as well. 4. Folks targeted by this spell tend to have lots of powerful friends. 5. You should be careful about upsetting any group of mages! Lastly, assuming the mechanics stay the same, what level would you suggest? And would you change the duration in any way? As it is, it lasts almost a week. For every level you bump it up, you increase the minimum duration by 2 more days.
L33t Angel 10-10-03, 04:08 PM	The hourglass is the only component that is not consumed in the process of casting. Then the hourglass isn't a component, its a Focus. Not a big thing. :D
Seeker95 10-10-03, 07:18 PM	Thanks L33t. Edited to reflect my new knowledge. ;)
Talchar 10-10-03, 09:23 PM	hmmm what level? That is hard to judge. DnD really does not take into account cooperative magic in its spell system. It is basically an unlimited range bestow curse spell. Assuming the victim is young. 3 Wizards = -6 STR, DEX, CON. 4 Wizards = Coma Yes the target should have friends, but when determining a spell level the availablity of counter magics should be taken into consideration when increasing the spell level. Ie a spell you cannot counter should be considered a higher level. Defense in DnD tends to be more powerful then offense. The lowest level unlimited range spell is 5th Dream and Nightmare. Nightmare leaves you fatigued, take 1D10 hp and unable to recover spells for a day. However, its save is drastically affected by the connection modifer. I see this spell being a tad weaker then Nightmare (due to the save issue) but stronger then bestow curse ( the range is big deal) . I can see a enemy wizard using this spell with Nightmare to terrorize a PC party or a kingdom. So on balance I would place it at 5th level. High enough to keep it out of the hands of low level mages, but low enough level not to have such a high save that you could wipe out a party. I would however, make it like bestow curse and not have it subject to dispel magic. With it being subject to dispel magic 4th level.
Yankee 10-11-03, 01:58 AM	I was thinking something 4th level or so, but either permenant or instantanious. Doing it from afar doesn't seem to gel with most of the spells that I've seen, no matter how cool an idea it is. I mean, there is already a 4th level 'save twice or die' spell (phantasmal killer), so a 'save once or get old' spell doesn't seem overpowered. Not sure what to call it, but I think it belongs in the necromancy school. Hey, maybe have a mass or improved version at thigher levels...
Al2902 10-11-03, 06:55 AM	There is a spell called Pass the Years in R&R. The victim ages 1 year/lvl, and it's PERMANENT.