Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wolverineX3D 05-12-06, 04:51 AM	Just got through a beating with a 6 armed evil guy that rises out of a pit in the "Age Of Worms" Dungeon Magazine adventure "The Three Faces of Evil" I think. My cleric casts "Align Weapon" on his War hammer, and it has no effect when it hits. I was going to cast it on our Fighters +1 Longsword, but he refused during battle to accept it. I guess he figured it wouldnt help? I assume this is either a Demon, Devil or Outsider/summoned creature. I have not seen any Demon/Devil or Outsider (non good) listing that does not have at least "good" as a Damage Reduction exception. I do not know the stats of this creature. There must be a reason, or a DM mistake? (i wont say that to him!). Can someone enlighten me? I have been reading about damage reduction since the battle, but am still confused about this specific instance. Even if his Damage Reduction was 10/magic or something like that....wouldnt this "still" have some effectivness? My "Holy Water" damaged him, and I only had to make a touch attack to throw it at him. That is "good", and specifically states it damages Outsiders. Did the DM allow that by mistake? Thanks...
runestar 05-12-06, 05:08 AM	It is possibe that the dr was X/good and lawful/chaotic, meaning it would actually require 2 castings of the spell to achieve the desired effect. I doubt the dr has an epic component as I don't recall any with that trait. So you would need the weapon to have both lawful and good or chaotic and good flags to overcome the dr, perhaps? :confused:
Merestil Haye 05-12-06, 06:01 AM	With DR in 3.5, it is more likely that you ran across a monster with DR x/Alignment and Material. Your weapon will then only bypass the DR if it is both the right alignment and the right material. For example, a Balor has DR that can be overcome only by a weapon that is both good and cold iron. What material is your weapon? A second possibility might be that the DR is x/Epic, in which case you need a +6 enhancement bonus to bypass it, but that is not very likely until you reach very high levels. As for the holy water : DR applies only to physical attacks. Holy Water, having been blessed by one or more Gods, does its damage by virtue of the sanctity invested in it, which is of supernatural origin and therefore bypasses any and all forms of DR. At least, that would be my reasoning.
MarkB 05-12-06, 07:02 AM	Just got through a beating with a 6 armed evil guy that rises out of a pit in the "Age Of Worms" Dungeon Magazine adventure "The Three Faces of Evil" I think. My cleric casts "Align Weapon" on his War hammer, and it has no effect when it hits. I was going to cast it on our Fighters +1 Longsword, but he refused during battle to accept it. I guess he figured it wouldnt help? I assume this is either a Demon, Devil or Outsider/summoned creature. I have not seen any Demon/Devil or Outsider (non good) listing that does not have at least "good" as a Damage Reduction exception. From the creature's description, it's easy to guess what it was - and the creature in question does, indeed, require a weapon that is both good-aligned and of a specific material to overcome its DR. Even if his Damage Reduction was 10/magic or something like that....wouldnt this "still" have some effectivness? No. Either you have the right combination to bypass the DR, or it applies in full. My "Holy Water" damaged him, and I only had to make a touch attack to throw it at him. That is "good", and specifically states it damages Outsiders. Did the DM allow that by mistake? Holy water does not inflict weapon damage, therefor Damage Reduction does not apply to it. By the look of it, your DM was applying the rules correctly in each instance.
wolverineX3D 05-12-06, 01:00 PM	So I understand why Holy water works now, thanks so much! What book is that in? I looked through Players Handbook 3.5 and found it under items to purchase, but didnt find much more in DM or MM or Complete Divine, etc. (I am boning up on learning about things for my Dwarven Cleric of Moradin). My teammate was using just a +1 longsword. I dont think it was any special material. If it was Silver, then that would still not get through the damage resistance, right? I guess i need to find that Dungeon Magazine issue 125 I think and read that creatures DR. But I do understand this more now!
wolverineX3D 05-12-06, 01:31 PM	I just heard back from my friend... The creature had Damage reduction 5/magic. We think it was made specifically for this adventure (Age of Worms, The Three Faces of Evil), and was an Aspect of 3 different evil dieites. We are not sure if it WAS an outsider/demon/devil or subject to normal rules, because I didnt read the adventure...nor would I want to! It would ruin the fun of playing.... But he had a regular Longsword, and cast Magic Weapon on it to make it +1. That worked, but when I cast Align Weapon on my regular Hammer, it didnt bypass the damage reduction. If I did more than 5 pts of damage, then it hurt him that much. My holy water did full damage. :)
MarkB 05-12-06, 01:32 PM	So I understand why Holy water works now, thanks so much! What book is that in? I looked through Players Handbook 3.5 and found it under items to purchase, but didnt find much more in DM or MM or Complete Divine, etc. (I am boning up on learning about things for my Dwarven Cleric of Moradin). Aside from its PHB entry, information about whether holy water affects a creature will generally be found in that creature's stat block. Bypassing Damage Reduction isn't a special function of holy water - it's a general function of everything except for weapon damage. DR only protects against weapons (including natural weapons and unarmed strikes). My teammate was using just a +1 longsword. I dont think it was any special material. If it was Silver, then that would still not get through the damage resistance, right? Generally speaking, Cold Iron helps to overcome the DR of demons, and Silver helps against devils. To know which is appropriate, you'd need to know more about your target. I guess i need to find that Dungeon Magazine issue 125 I think and read that creatures DR. If any of the PCs in your game have ranks in Knowledge (the planes), they can make checks to try and identify the fiend, and depending on how well they do, they might learn what they need to overcome its DR.
wolverineX3D 05-12-06, 01:48 PM	All, I subscribe to Dungeon and Dragon magazines. When the DM said we were going through the Age Of Worms, I decided i would NOT read anything related to it. Period. It would totally ruin the fun! I have DMd myself, and wouldnt want others to do it either. I am just wanting some clarification on how things work... I also understand a bit why Holy Water worked instead of a regular "weapon" with the spell cast on it. My friend had a regular Longsword and had Magic Weapon cast on it for +1, and he got through. I thought if I did Align Weapon ONLY on mine, it would help since this creature was hopefully an outsider, demon or devil. The DM told me it was an Aspect..but I dont know what that means...yet. My Cleric has 9 ranks of Knowledge/Religion, and when I went up a level, I just took 4 ranks of Knowledge/Planes because I was wanting to research. I told the DM that I was interested in maybe becoming an Exorcist someday...so he was OK with that. We have worked it into the storyline...and i have read and reviewed small things with him. But I agreed to have a sit down / one on one with him to help me understand and clarify how things work. I think I know more now. So by taking the ranks in Planes, I might now have a chance to know things in-game!
Merestil Haye 05-12-06, 01:51 PM	That makes sense of it. DR X/Magic is overcome by a weapon having an Enhancement bonus to hit and damage. Your casting Align Weapon on your hammer did not give it an enhancement bonus to hit and damage. Your friend casting Magic Weapon on his longsword did give it an enhancement bonus to hit and damage, and therefore enabled it to bypass the creature's DR.
MarkB 05-12-06, 02:12 PM	That makes sense of it. DR X/Magic is overcome by a weapon having an Enhancement bonus to hit and damage. Your casting Align Weapon on your hammer did not give it an enhancement bonus to hit and damage. Your friend casting Magic Weapon on his longsword did give it an enhancement bonus to hit and damage, and therefore enabled it to bypass the creature's DR. Another possibility is that it had DR 10/Slashing, in which case the longsword (magic or not) would penetrate, whilst the hammer (magic or not) would not.