alignment changing spell? [Archive] - Wizards Community

alignment changing spell? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ashcat_lt
05-10-05, 02:04 AM What spells are available to change a character's alignment against his will?
nick012000
05-10-05, 02:17 AM Mindrape, from the Book of Vile Darkness.

There's also rules for brainwas-sorry, redeeming evil characters in the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Al2902
05-10-05, 05:55 AM Programmed Amnesia from CA is also a phenomenally versatile spell which can change alignments amongst other things.
Seeker95
05-10-05, 11:45 AM In my game, alignment is a description of your actions, not a determinant of them.
So, in my game, you cannot change a creature's alignment unless you permanently change the creature's behavior.
The best you can do in changing alignment is to make it detect as something else.
ashcat_lt
05-10-05, 03:06 PM i was kind of hoping for something a little lower level, but i guess it is a fairly powerful effect. Really messes up paladins, and can cause big problems for clerics and such as well. As to what Seeker was saying, I understand your angle, but in fact with the two spells mentioned above (which are actually very similar in their effects) this is exactly what you are doing. You go into the other person's mind and actively reprogram it. I guess you don't mess with that helm of opposite alignment do you?

This is actually something I need for the backstory of a couple of powerful NPC's in my campaign. One is a goblin, the other a drow. They both ended up raiding the same elf village (on seperate occasions) where one of the defending spellcasters had the great idea to show his attackers the error of their ways. This means the spell was cast in combat conditions, ruling out the 10 minute casting time of the Programmed Amnesia, but making Mindrape almost perfect. I guess the fact that it was a 9th level spell explains why they were only able to hit one or two members of each raiding party with it. I didn't really want the village to have a 17th level caster as there are only maybe 50 people in the world that reach this level. I guess I can work with it, though. I'm going to try psionics real quick, otherwise I guess I've found my answer.

Thanks y'all
Seeker95
05-10-05, 03:37 PM Regarding the two spells listed above...

In my game, they don't change a character's alignment. Rather, they change a character's behavior -- forcibly. The behavior may result in an alignment change. Subtle distinction, but important.

Just as with suggestion, charm, domination, since the change is not willing, I would not have the character detect as a different alignment. This would be one clue to onlookers (casters who can detect alignments) that something was amiss.

Now, if the PC embraced the new bahavior, and in time acted in a manner that reinforced the spell effects... that would result in an alignment change.

Regarding the helm of opposite alignment... I use them in my game, but they affect alignment detection (and impacts). The alignment doesn't really change. But it could cause a monk to be affected by protection from chaos!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ashcat_lt 05-10-05, 02:04 AM	What spells are available to change a character's alignment against his will?
nick012000 05-10-05, 02:17 AM	Mindrape, from the Book of Vile Darkness. There's also rules for brainwas-sorry, redeeming evil characters in the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Al2902 05-10-05, 05:55 AM	Programmed Amnesia from CA is also a phenomenally versatile spell which can change alignments amongst other things.
Seeker95 05-10-05, 11:45 AM	In my game, alignment is a description of your actions, not a determinant of them. So, in my game, you cannot change a creature's alignment unless you permanently change the creature's behavior. The best you can do in changing alignment is to make it detect as something else.
ashcat_lt 05-10-05, 03:06 PM	i was kind of hoping for something a little lower level, but i guess it is a fairly powerful effect. Really messes up paladins, and can cause big problems for clerics and such as well. As to what Seeker was saying, I understand your angle, but in fact with the two spells mentioned above (which are actually very similar in their effects) this is exactly what you are doing. You go into the other person's mind and actively reprogram it. I guess you don't mess with that helm of opposite alignment do you? This is actually something I need for the backstory of a couple of powerful NPC's in my campaign. One is a goblin, the other a drow. They both ended up raiding the same elf village (on seperate occasions) where one of the defending spellcasters had the great idea to show his attackers the error of their ways. This means the spell was cast in combat conditions, ruling out the 10 minute casting time of the Programmed Amnesia, but making Mindrape almost perfect. I guess the fact that it was a 9th level spell explains why they were only able to hit one or two members of each raiding party with it. I didn't really want the village to have a 17th level caster as there are only maybe 50 people in the world that reach this level. I guess I can work with it, though. I'm going to try psionics real quick, otherwise I guess I've found my answer. Thanks y'all
Seeker95 05-10-05, 03:37 PM	Regarding the two spells listed above... In my game, they don't change a character's alignment. Rather, they change a character's behavior -- forcibly. The behavior may result in an alignment change. Subtle distinction, but important. Just as with suggestion, charm, domination, since the change is not willing, I would not have the character detect as a different alignment. This would be one clue to onlookers (casters who can detect alignments) that something was amiss. Now, if the PC embraced the new bahavior, and in time acted in a manner that reinforced the spell effects... that would result in an alignment change. Regarding the helm of opposite alignment... I use them in my game, but they affect alignment detection (and impacts). The alignment doesn't really change. But it could cause a monk to be affected by protection from chaos!