Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Madwolf 02-19-07, 10:10 AM	The PH states someone can voluntarily waive their saving throw or supress their spell resistance. *Do you think this means as long as they are aware of the fact that a helpful (from a ally) spell is being cast on them? The 3.5 SRD states that you can declare yourself a "willing target" at any time, even when it is not your turn. *Same question as above. The main question: whether or not an ally of a spellcaster could feasibly know, in the middle of hectic combat, that the magic taking hold of him is actually from a friend? I see the rules-as-written, but am wondering if there is a BIG implied assumption there, something they neglected to state out loud: the target must be aware of what is being cast on them to declare themselves a willing target. Makes a BIG difference, ya know. Thanks for any & all help!
runestar 02-19-07, 10:52 AM	Hmm...I never thought of that. I always assumed that for simplicity's sake, your allies are automatically able to distinguish between harmful and helpful spells(and usually just gloss over the "How the heck are they supposed to know?" aspect)...:embarrass
efreeti 02-19-07, 11:04 AM	We have always run it that a character has to be aware of the helpful spell being cast otherwise they resist it. More often than not this simply involves the caster shouting that they are about to cast but sometimes when the battle is very loud and hectic the recipient can be unaware and forced to make a save against it. It doesn't make it too complicated and adds loads to flavour of the game. A spot or listen check will usually suffice, or sometimes maybe a wisdom check if the druid who is casting the spell is currently in the form of a shambling mound and the charcter didn't see him wildshape. There are sometimes instances when certain characters do not want a spell cast on them, maybe being enlarged is not what the rogue had in mind or the Paladin refuses to accept the haste from the wizard who has just summoned a fiendish dire lion, in which case it is only fair that they would get to save against it. Spell Resistance actually takes a standard action to drop it I think (certainly how we play it, probably in RAW) which makes that ability something of a double edged sword, as our party monk is just starting to find out. :)
ScipioX 02-19-07, 01:42 PM	A character who makes a saving throw feels a hostile tingle, but doesn't otherwise know what the spell is or even who cast it. This implies that a spell recipient can't identify what spell is affecting him, or who cast it, before he makes a saving throw. Thus, PC's would probably need some sort of shouted information or other clue in order to know that they should not resist a beneficial spell. Of course, a DM could also rule that spells that are listed as 'harmless' are distinct from normal spells, so PC's can automatically tell that they beneficial spells and thus can choose to not resist them without any more information. Personally, I think the first interpretation has better support in the RAW, but whichever one works better in your game.
tiercel 02-19-07, 08:10 PM	As a matter of practicality, I usually see this run as "helpful spells just work." There is an extent to which this makes a certain amount of sense -- you are in combat, and you hear your buddy the spellcaster chanting some kind of familiar-sounding gibberish, and just as he finishes you feel magic touching you, so you let it because you trust the guy. Where this interpretation gets sticky, of course, is when such trust gets abused -- either because a PC is turning traitor, or is confused, or dominated, or pulling a fast one on a charmed victim or one that just really, really likes him because of Diplomacy or whatever. Technically, you don't know what spell is incoming unless you are using Spellcraft. Unless you are identifying the spell as it's being cast, you have to decide whether to trust the effect, and in most situation this is okay (and makes the game run smoother) -- it's just those special cases that are tough. In general, when in doubt I try to err on the side of not denying saves against (harmful) spells that normally allow one, and not forcing saves against (helpful) spells that wouldn't normally require one, when it is reasonable to do so. As has been mentioned, SR is entirely another ball of wax since it explicitly takes a standard action to lower your SR (and then your "shields are down" for a round). In the SRD it is here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance): A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity). A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.
Thomas_Covenant 02-19-07, 09:29 PM	It's probably not precisely spelled out, but I always play that the target knows which Saving Throw he's considering auto-failing (Fort, Ref, Will) and whether the spell carries the "harmless" descriptor. I'd hate to nitpick over rules arguments for trusting someone casting a "Cure ___ Wounds" spell, this approach solves that. If you want an NPC to cast Polymorph on you, though....you better really think hard about how trustworthy they are, it could be ugly...
runestar 02-19-07, 10:55 PM	There are sometimes instances when certain characters do not want a spell cast on them, maybe being enlarged is not what the rogue had in mind or the Paladin refuses to accept the haste from the wizard who has just summoned a fiendish dire lion, in which case it is only fair that they would get to save against it. Usually, the players just discussed among themselves what buffs they want and do not want, so communication is never a problem...:P For me at least. Might go against the spirit of the game, but I think it solves more problems than it causes...