allowing disrupt undead to cure [Archive] - Wizards Community

allowing disrupt undead to cure [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
curan69
11-25-05, 02:56 PM I was reading the description of Disrupt undead. ( 0 level arcane spell)

It channels positive energy to harm the undead. Just like a cure light wounds or a heal spell would do.

Reading all the descriptions of the cure and inflict spells and the harm and heal spells, along with the glossary descriptions of Positive and negative energy, it doesnt seem like a far stretch to allow disrupt undead to heal living creatures. ( if you apply the same principals as the other spells)

Has anyone looked at this before and thought the same thing?
Templetroll
11-25-05, 03:21 PM I was reading the description of Disrupt undead. ( 0 level arcane spell)

It channels positive energy to harm the undead. Just like a cure light wounds or a heal spell would do.

Reading all the descriptions of the cure and inflict spells and the harm and heal spells, along with the glossary descriptions of Positive and negative energy, it doesnt seem like a far stretch to allow disrupt undead to heal living creatures. ( if you apply the same principals as the other spells)

Has anyone looked at this before and thought the same thing?

The Cure and heal are Divine magic, coming from a god. Disrupt Undead is Arcane magic and is positive energy manipulated by 'just some guy' who is not a god. Arcane magic that cures some damage is usually as a side effect of of the spell altering the body in some way, it is not true healing.
jaelis
11-25-05, 03:28 PM Personally I don't object to letting arcane casters heal, but a cantrip healing 1d6 would certainly be overpowered, even for a cleric. If you wanted to let it heal 1 hp, I could see it.
runestar
11-26-05, 03:12 AM Then have the arcane equivalent of cure minor wounds - either do 1 damage to undead, or heal for 1 hp. Anymore would be overpowered, for a cantrip, at any rate.
curan69
11-26-05, 08:51 AM Templetroll,

I was thinking of that too ( that the other cures came from Divine)
Then i rememberd that there are arcane cure spells.

When A bard casts Cure light wounds it is arcane not divine and has nothing to do with a god

I also thought it might be overpowered, especially considering you can use it from a distance ( it is a ray)

I was just looking at the spell and thinking if you used it on a living creature would it do the opposite like all the other spells that use positive or negative energy
Nephlite
11-26-05, 09:44 AM Templetroll,

I was thinking of that too ( that the other cures came from Divine)
Then i rememberd that there are arcane cure spells.

When A bard casts Cure light wounds it is arcane not divine and has nothing to do with a god

I also thought it might be overpowered, especially considering you can use it from a distance ( it is a ray)

I was just looking at the spell and thinking if you used it on a living creature would it do the opposite like all the other spells that use positive or negative energy

Really how often do you see a Sorc or Wizard use Disrupt undead to heal allies?

It isn't more powerful than a Cleric, Druid, or Bard who heals more than that.

I saw as long as you don't let them reaearch higher versions definately balanced.
CryoSilver
11-26-05, 10:31 AM I wouldn't allow it. That positive energy is uncontrolled: it would be like trying to use a lamp socket with two wires stuck in it as a defibrillator. Like too much a good thing in the wrong form.

The wizard isn't throttling the energy like a cleric would: he's just using it to blast stuff.

Another example: when someone has hypothermia, you warm them up slowly. You do not light them on fire.
Gardun Battlehammer
11-26-05, 12:43 PM A definite no. The ―isrupt Undead spell does exactly what the description states, generates a short burst of possitive energy to damage the animating forces of unlife, and nothing more. The Cure chain of spells are designed to generate an intricate weave of magic with the sole purpose of repairing rended tissue of living beings. Since the effect is based upon positive energy it also damages undead creatures. Positive energy always harms undead creatures since it rends the animating forces. Negative energy always damages living creatures since it siphons their life force. Negative energy always heals undead creatures since the energy strenghtens the animating forces just like filling up glass of water. Positive energy CAN be beneficial to living creatures if it is given in a refined and specific way but can also be dangerous if applied in to large a dose (See the descriptions for the positive energy dominant planes in the Manual of The Planes and various other supplements), simply put positive energy does not heal living creatures just because it is positive energy, you need to use it correctly.

This is the best way i can explain it from my point of view adn seen from a rules-wise perspective you cannot heal someone with Disrupt Undead just bacuse the spell description does not list this as one of the possible uses. This is for the sake of game balance, if you gave the arcane casters (Bard excluded here) the ability to heal as well as to be the most prominent damage dealers, it would upset the balance of the game.

Cheers and hope it helped.

[Blaming any typos on the fact that my right hand is broken]
CryoSilver
11-26-05, 06:52 PM If your hand is broken you should go get a CLW. :P
Gray stranger
11-26-05, 07:20 PM Kinda Useless I know, But I would let it heal 1D6 nonlethal damage, since it's a 'short burst of energy' and a ray spell and all

just my 2 cp :)
Gardun Battlehammer
11-27-05, 07:14 AM hehe, right now I wouldn't say no to a few points of regeneration, mind you. :D

Then again, I making my own campaign world where healing is heavily revised and magical healing even more so. You could say that I was inspiured by the Wheel of Time system where healing magic converts normal damage tom subdual damage which the creature then heals on its own. Couldpost my own rules if someone is interested in that completely off-topic information... :cool:

[Edit: bloody 'ell, my spelling sucks, see above]

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
curan69 11-25-05, 02:56 PM	I was reading the description of Disrupt undead. ( 0 level arcane spell) It channels positive energy to harm the undead. Just like a cure light wounds or a heal spell would do. Reading all the descriptions of the cure and inflict spells and the harm and heal spells, along with the glossary descriptions of Positive and negative energy, it doesnt seem like a far stretch to allow disrupt undead to heal living creatures. ( if you apply the same principals as the other spells) Has anyone looked at this before and thought the same thing?
Templetroll 11-25-05, 03:21 PM	I was reading the description of Disrupt undead. ( 0 level arcane spell) It channels positive energy to harm the undead. Just like a cure light wounds or a heal spell would do. Reading all the descriptions of the cure and inflict spells and the harm and heal spells, along with the glossary descriptions of Positive and negative energy, it doesnt seem like a far stretch to allow disrupt undead to heal living creatures. ( if you apply the same principals as the other spells) Has anyone looked at this before and thought the same thing? The Cure and heal are Divine magic, coming from a god. Disrupt Undead is Arcane magic and is positive energy manipulated by 'just some guy' who is not a god. Arcane magic that cures some damage is usually as a side effect of of the spell altering the body in some way, it is not true healing.
jaelis 11-25-05, 03:28 PM	Personally I don't object to letting arcane casters heal, but a cantrip healing 1d6 would certainly be overpowered, even for a cleric. If you wanted to let it heal 1 hp, I could see it.
runestar 11-26-05, 03:12 AM	Then have the arcane equivalent of cure minor wounds - either do 1 damage to undead, or heal for 1 hp. Anymore would be overpowered, for a cantrip, at any rate.
curan69 11-26-05, 08:51 AM	Templetroll, I was thinking of that too ( that the other cures came from Divine) Then i rememberd that there are arcane cure spells. When A bard casts Cure light wounds it is arcane not divine and has nothing to do with a god I also thought it might be overpowered, especially considering you can use it from a distance ( it is a ray) I was just looking at the spell and thinking if you used it on a living creature would it do the opposite like all the other spells that use positive or negative energy
Nephlite 11-26-05, 09:44 AM	Templetroll, I was thinking of that too ( that the other cures came from Divine) Then i rememberd that there are arcane cure spells. When A bard casts Cure light wounds it is arcane not divine and has nothing to do with a god I also thought it might be overpowered, especially considering you can use it from a distance ( it is a ray) I was just looking at the spell and thinking if you used it on a living creature would it do the opposite like all the other spells that use positive or negative energy Really how often do you see a Sorc or Wizard use Disrupt undead to heal allies? It isn't more powerful than a Cleric, Druid, or Bard who heals more than that. I saw as long as you don't let them reaearch higher versions definately balanced.
CryoSilver 11-26-05, 10:31 AM	I wouldn't allow it. That positive energy is uncontrolled: it would be like trying to use a lamp socket with two wires stuck in it as a defibrillator. Like too much a good thing in the wrong form. The wizard isn't throttling the energy like a cleric would: he's just using it to blast stuff. Another example: when someone has hypothermia, you warm them up slowly. You do not light them on fire.
Gardun Battlehammer 11-26-05, 12:43 PM	A definite no. The ―isrupt Undead spell does exactly what the description states, generates a short burst of possitive energy to damage the animating forces of unlife, and nothing more. The Cure chain of spells are designed to generate an intricate weave of magic with the sole purpose of repairing rended tissue of living beings. Since the effect is based upon positive energy it also damages undead creatures. Positive energy always harms undead creatures since it rends the animating forces. Negative energy always damages living creatures since it siphons their life force. Negative energy always heals undead creatures since the energy strenghtens the animating forces just like filling up glass of water. Positive energy CAN be beneficial to living creatures if it is given in a refined and specific way but can also be dangerous if applied in to large a dose (See the descriptions for the positive energy dominant planes in the Manual of The Planes and various other supplements), simply put positive energy does not heal living creatures just because it is positive energy, you need to use it correctly. This is the best way i can explain it from my point of view adn seen from a rules-wise perspective you cannot heal someone with Disrupt Undead just bacuse the spell description does not list this as one of the possible uses. This is for the sake of game balance, if you gave the arcane casters (Bard excluded here) the ability to heal as well as to be the most prominent damage dealers, it would upset the balance of the game. Cheers and hope it helped. [Blaming any typos on the fact that my right hand is broken]
CryoSilver 11-26-05, 06:52 PM	If your hand is broken you should go get a CLW. :P
Gray stranger 11-26-05, 07:20 PM	Kinda Useless I know, But I would let it heal 1D6 nonlethal damage, since it's a 'short burst of energy' and a ray spell and all just my 2 cp :)
Gardun Battlehammer 11-27-05, 07:14 AM	hehe, right now I wouldn't say no to a few points of regeneration, mind you. :D Then again, I making my own campaign world where healing is heavily revised and magical healing even more so. You could say that I was inspiured by the Wheel of Time system where healing magic converts normal damage tom subdual damage which the creature then heals on its own. Couldpost my own rules if someone is interested in that completely off-topic information... :cool: [Edit: bloody 'ell, my spelling sucks, see above]