Alter Self and Dragon Disciple [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alter Self and Dragon Disciple [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
groveborn
06-06-07, 01:16 AM Ok, I'm an 11th level Bard, and a 10th level Dragon Disciple. It hit me, as I was considering my favorite spell, Alter Self, that my wings, claws, teeth, and Nat AC are class features, and so *should* be with me in any form I choose. Then I realized I'm a dragon now. Which means I can only Alter Self into dragons. I've looked at the various colors I can go for, their nice features (those that I'd get any ways), and come up with a quick stump on exactly how to handle it.

We all know that Alter Self allows you to transform into a creature of your own type, up to a max of 5 HD, but the problem is at what "stage" is the HD supposed to be? I can, by strictest reading, become only one dragon, but are those HD supposed to be at their adult age? Or is it at any age? If I became a Green Dragon, Wyrmling, 4HD... what size would I actually be, as I need to be an average specimen of the race I become. Is a wyrmling then an average specimen? According to the list I'd be size small, fly at a max of 100ft, and gain +4 nat ac. But is that correct? Do I become an average everyday green wyrmling, or do I become an average, everyday Green Dragon? Eek.

Thanks all.
Kouk
06-06-07, 06:56 AM Probably anything classified as a dragon? With a limit on the HD, so you would have to be a wyrmling.

There are other things that are dragons though, like the tiamat spawn, maybe drakes.
El_Machinae
06-06-07, 07:11 AM Dragon Disciple is weird. At tenth level, you get the half-dragon template in lieu of the earlier class advances (such as Str boost and NA, etc.). It seems to replace them.
TheGogmagog
06-06-07, 08:29 AM Most people consider anything statted out in the MM is an 'average specimin'. A few rule out 'example' creatures that are statted out like the Troll-Ranger. More rare are those that think any creature in the HD advancement range count as average.

At any rate, Most DM's would allow a 5HD or less Dragon. Are tiamat spawn or drakes 5HD or less? Those little faery dragons people always want as a familiar might be worth considering.

You are also epic, so something like polymorph any object might be able to achieve a permanant or very long duration. I like advanced Wyverns.
Derren S.
06-06-07, 08:44 AM When you alter self or polymorph into a dragon, you can choose the age level you want to be.
tarkin
06-06-07, 11:05 AM While you can choose the age, the HD and the size limits still apply.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
groveborn 06-06-07, 01:16 AM	Ok, I'm an 11th level Bard, and a 10th level Dragon Disciple. It hit me, as I was considering my favorite spell, Alter Self, that my wings, claws, teeth, and Nat AC are class features, and so should be with me in any form I choose. Then I realized I'm a dragon now. Which means I can only Alter Self into dragons. I've looked at the various colors I can go for, their nice features (those that I'd get any ways), and come up with a quick stump on exactly how to handle it. We all know that Alter Self allows you to transform into a creature of your own type, up to a max of 5 HD, but the problem is at what "stage" is the HD supposed to be? I can, by strictest reading, become only one dragon, but are those HD supposed to be at their adult age? Or is it at any age? If I became a Green Dragon, Wyrmling, 4HD... what size would I actually be, as I need to be an average specimen of the race I become. Is a wyrmling then an average specimen? According to the list I'd be size small, fly at a max of 100ft, and gain +4 nat ac. But is that correct? Do I become an average everyday green wyrmling, or do I become an average, everyday Green Dragon? Eek. Thanks all.
Kouk 06-06-07, 06:56 AM	Probably anything classified as a dragon? With a limit on the HD, so you would have to be a wyrmling. There are other things that are dragons though, like the tiamat spawn, maybe drakes.
El_Machinae 06-06-07, 07:11 AM	Dragon Disciple is weird. At tenth level, you get the half-dragon template in lieu of the earlier class advances (such as Str boost and NA, etc.). It seems to replace them.
TheGogmagog 06-06-07, 08:29 AM	Most people consider anything statted out in the MM is an 'average specimin'. A few rule out 'example' creatures that are statted out like the Troll-Ranger. More rare are those that think any creature in the HD advancement range count as average. At any rate, Most DM's would allow a 5HD or less Dragon. Are tiamat spawn or drakes 5HD or less? Those little faery dragons people always want as a familiar might be worth considering. You are also epic, so something like polymorph any object might be able to achieve a permanant or very long duration. I like advanced Wyverns.
Derren S. 06-06-07, 08:44 AM	When you alter self or polymorph into a dragon, you can choose the age level you want to be.
tarkin 06-06-07, 11:05 AM	While you can choose the age, the HD and the size limits still apply.