Alter self and merfolk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alter self and merfolk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jaelis
01-29-06, 11:02 PM If you use Alter Self to turn into a merfolk, do you gain the ability to breath underwater?

RAW seems to say no, which seems lame.
Shatteredtower
01-30-06, 03:01 AM If you use Alter Self to turn into a merfolk, do you gain the ability to breath underwater?This might depend on whether or not you'd consider the merfolk respiratory system to be a gross physical quality.
Egres
01-30-06, 08:37 AM This might depend on whether or not you'd consider the merfolk respiratory system to be a gross physical quality.
Amphibious (Ex): Merfolk can breathe both air and water, although they rarely travel more than a few feet from the water’s edge.

Alter Self [snip]
You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.
jaelis
01-30-06, 09:44 AM Also:

Aquatic Subtype: These creatures always have swim speeds and thus can move in water without making Swim checks. An aquatic creature can breathe underwater. It cannot also breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality.

Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form.

But yet, I would have said that gills were a gross physical feature. And it seems dumb to get the swim speed but not being able to breath water.

Oh well, I'm sure if I hadn't had the wrong idea to begin with, it wouldn't bother me as much.
stamhaven
01-30-06, 10:31 AM I agree with Jaelis and would rule that gills are fine with alter self to a merfolk (compared to the combat perks availible from things like troglodyte and lizardfolk with explicitly allow natural weapons and natural armor, adding waterbreathing and a swim speed is nothing for me to worry about). In general I wish alter self wree closer to the minor change of changelings than the combat buff it's ofent turned out to be.
tarkin
01-30-06, 01:00 PM Alter self was originally clearly a "breath underwater and fly spell". That was it's intent (written into the spell) in both 2nd edition and 3.0.

In 3.5 they made it less clear, and modified the spell a lot.

I still think it should be capable of letting you breathe underwater and fly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jaelis 01-29-06, 11:02 PM	If you use Alter Self to turn into a merfolk, do you gain the ability to breath underwater? RAW seems to say no, which seems lame.
Shatteredtower 01-30-06, 03:01 AM	If you use Alter Self to turn into a merfolk, do you gain the ability to breath underwater?This might depend on whether or not you'd consider the merfolk respiratory system to be a gross physical quality.
Egres 01-30-06, 08:37 AM	This might depend on whether or not you'd consider the merfolk respiratory system to be a gross physical quality. Amphibious (Ex): Merfolk can breathe both air and water, although they rarely travel more than a few feet from the water’s edge. Alter Self [snip] You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.
jaelis 01-30-06, 09:44 AM	Also: Aquatic Subtype: These creatures always have swim speeds and thus can move in water without making Swim checks. An aquatic creature can breathe underwater. It cannot also breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. But yet, I would have said that gills were a gross physical feature. And it seems dumb to get the swim speed but not being able to breath water. Oh well, I'm sure if I hadn't had the wrong idea to begin with, it wouldn't bother me as much.
stamhaven 01-30-06, 10:31 AM	I agree with Jaelis and would rule that gills are fine with alter self to a merfolk (compared to the combat perks availible from things like troglodyte and lizardfolk with explicitly allow natural weapons and natural armor, adding waterbreathing and a swim speed is nothing for me to worry about). In general I wish alter self wree closer to the minor change of changelings than the combat buff it's ofent turned out to be.
tarkin 01-30-06, 01:00 PM	Alter self was originally clearly a "breath underwater and fly spell". That was it's intent (written into the spell) in both 2nd edition and 3.0. In 3.5 they made it less clear, and modified the spell a lot. I still think it should be capable of letting you breathe underwater and fly.