Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ronyon 06-29-06, 12:41 PM	Simply put, what can a Skeleton turn into using Alter Self? From the SRD: You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form... You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself... You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype. Does the permission to change into a member of your own kind overide the prohibition on taking the form of creatures with templates? What about the word "kind" ? Does it refer to type? Worst case scenario, Skeletons could take the form of Vampire Spawn,but not that of Skeletons, including their own form. Best case scenario, a Skelton could take the form of any Skeleton. What do you guys think...
ronyon 06-30-06, 11:23 AM	Bump.
Dheran 06-30-06, 09:40 PM	Simply put, what can a Skeleton turn into using Alter Self? Nothing at all. You need a mind to cast a spell. Any creature that becomes a skeleton loses all spellcasting and spell-like abilities. Skeletons are the animated bones of the dead, mindless automatons that obey the orders of their evil masters. Does the permission to change into a member of your own kind overide the prohibition on taking the form of creatures with templates? No. You can never, ever, assume any templated form.
IceFractal 07-01-06, 04:30 AM	The problem with this, though, is that most undead are represented by templates. Personally, I'd be inclined to say that a creature with a type-changing template using alter self can turn into another creature of the base type with another template of the same type. So for instance, an originally Elven Lich could turn into other humanoids with undead templates applied, such as a Dwarven Zombie. A zombie dog, if it somehow could cast the spell, could turn into other undead animals, such as a skeleton horse. Note however, that this is not strictly by the rules, just my take on what makes sense.
Thane26425 07-01-06, 01:47 PM	Somewhere I saw a spell called something like Disguise Undead. It was an illusion spell that would make undead looking like a living creature, or at least be less detectable for what they are. For a lich an old group faced, I created a spell called As You Were: a permanant spell that allowed the lich to look as it did in life, which could be dropped at will to allow for a shock factor in a fight.
Magicianguy131 07-01-06, 08:32 PM	For a lich an old group faced, I created a spell called As You Were: a permanant spell that allowed the lich to look as it did in life, which could be dropped at will to allow for a shock factor in a fight. Could I get the stats on that spell? My lich has to wear a cloak, cape, robe, and mask when he enters town and people stare.......
Thane26425 07-01-06, 09:15 PM	Could I get the stats on that spell? My lich has to wear a cloak, cape, robe, and mask when he enters town and people stare....... I'd love to give them to you, but I don't know where they are. I think it was a level 6 or 7 spell, had a range of self and was permanant, though it could be dispelled as other permanant effects. Other particulars were: The illusion was tactile as well as visual, so you would feel normal as well. In addition, it could also be cast on a familiar to make it look and feel as it did too. The subject of the spell can turn it off at will, which could make enemies have to make a check to avoid being frightened or shaken if they don't know one's true nature. It had only verbal and somatic components and will make the caster look like they did the last time they were natural. So, if the caster was a bit hefty and out of shape, that's how they will look, or, if they worked out a lot before the transformation and got really cut, that's how they would look. The form cannot be changed by this spell, but other effects like Disguise Self or that hat that changes appearances will temporarily override As You Were. It won't suppress any auras or hazardous touches though, it only makes you look and feel like you once did. Basically consider it a higher level, fixed effect disguise self spell. That's pretty much it, if you want to fill out any of the other stats go ahead. I'll probably work it up again myself one of these days, though since it has such a limited use, I'll probably just pick a level for it, say 7, and not bother with much beyond dispell difficulty. I'm playing a Green Star Adept who is close to his final transformation, along with his familiar. Like your lich, this spell would help them function in society better.
ronyon 07-03-06, 05:29 PM	Nothing at all. You need a mind to cast a spell. Any creature that becomes a skeleton loses all spellcasting and spell-like abilities. No. You can never, ever, assume any templated form. I think I have a way around that, with Runes, but for the sake of argument, let us assume that we have Awakened this skeleton...
sparkster4242 07-07-06, 12:44 AM	the spell description doesnt say that it takes away any templates you may already have - so a lich would still retain its lich template, regardless of which form of undead it took with alter Self, and similarly for a skeletal humanoid. of course, it could only take the form of something that didnt require a template... hrmph. perhaps it would be best to allow it to take a form it could take if it lacked its undead-granting template? for example, a lich who was a human in life could take on the form of a humanoid.
Thane26425 07-07-06, 03:23 AM	I posted the updated version of the spell, As You Were, on this board under a thread of that name. There is the trial version then later a modified final form where it is a lower level and not permanant, though it can be made permanant.