Post/Author/DateTime	Post
runestar 07-08-07, 04:34 AM	I saw this being mentioned in another thread. It seems wacky enough that it just might work, and I cannot find anything explicitly prohibiting such a move. At 5th lv, a warforged wizard could use alter self to transform into a 4th lv astral construct, gaining +10NA. But this is where the tricky part arises. Would this work? How would you determine what special abilities from the menu to take? :confused: Thanks in advance.:)
TheAnthroDM 07-08-07, 04:38 AM	One of thee ways as far as I can see. A) Choose abilities as if you had created the Astral Construct you are becoming B) Choose from abilities you have seen applied to an Astral Construct(Limited by your own form) C) You get non of the abilities. Too bad for you. :P
runestar 07-08-07, 04:53 AM	4TH-LEVEL ASTRAL CONSTRUCT Medium Construct Hit Dice: 5d10+20 (47 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) Armor Class: 22 (+2 Dex, +10 natural), touch 12, flatfooted 20 Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+10 Attack: Slam +10 melee (1d6+10) Full Attack: Slam +10 melee (1d6+10) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: One ability from Menu B, construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision Saves: Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +1 Abilities: Str 25, Dex 15, Con —, Int —, Wis 11, Cha 10 Skills: — Feats: — I would just like to confirm what I get and miss... So after alter selfing into an astral construct, I get +10NA, a slam attack at 1d6+1.5str mod, 40ft speed, darkvision 60ft, low light vision. Apparently, since an astral construct has no fixed form, this means I can make myself look like anything I want, however goofy or badass...?:confused: So all that is left is the menu ability, which boasts a variety of very useful benefits such as fast healing, deflection AC bonus, flight or swim speed. I swear - these shapechanging spells are as migraine inducing as they are powerful...:P Am I missing anything?
Kouk 07-08-07, 01:15 PM	I can't comment on the legality at the moment, but I wouldn't allow it because an Astral Construct is summoned from ectoplasm from the Astral Plane and held together with psionic powers, so I would just say it is beyond the scope of the spell.
Lafing Cat 07-08-07, 05:19 PM	You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth. You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype. 4TH-LEVEL ASTRAL CONSTRUCT Medium Construct Hit Dice: 5d10+20 (47 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) Armor Class: 22 (+2 Dex, +10 natural), touch 12, flatfooted 20 Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+10 Attack: Slam +10 melee (1d6+10) Full Attack: Slam +10 melee (1d6+10) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: One ability from Menu B, construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision It's a moot point what special qualities the astral construct has. You don't get them with Alter-Self. (The only exceptions are the flight and swimming ones). None of the feats are marked as racial bonus feats, so you can't get those, and the rest are all things that can't under any circumstances be granted.
DarkPawn 07-08-07, 07:37 PM	But large size, +10 NA, and flight is pretty sweet for a 2nd level spell. ;)
nepence 07-08-07, 08:03 PM	Especially if it lasts for 10 minutes/level. Although you are still medium size, just to point it out. Still +10 NA and flight for 10 min/level, and a 2nd level spell slot? Yes please.
ArcTan 07-08-07, 08:21 PM	I saw this being mentioned in another thread. It seems wacky enough that it just might work, and I cannot find anything explicitly prohibiting such a move. At 5th lv, a warforged wizard could use alter self to transform into a 4th lv astral construct, gaining +10NA. But this is where the tricky part arises. Would this work? How would you determine what special abilities from the menu to take? :confused: Thanks in advance.:) Astral Constructs with different menu abilities are just variations on the Astral Construct monster race, just like Animated Objects of different objects. I would allow it (if I were allowing you to alter self into Astral Constructs in the first place, which isn't guaranteed). It's like turning into a Grey Elf instead of a regular Elf.
Yue Ryong 07-08-07, 08:56 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, my recollection of Warforged is limited, but I thought that Living Construct was an entirely seperate type to Construct, despite the similarities. Wouldn't that prevent a Warforged using Alter Self to turn into anything other than another Living Construct?
ArcTan 07-08-07, 09:00 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, my recollection of Warforged is limited, but I thought that Living Construct was an entirely seperate type to Construct, despite the similarities. Wouldn't that prevent a Warforged using Alter Self to turn into anything other than another Living Construct? No. Living Construct is a subtype of Construct. However, only Living Constructs, among Constructs, count as "living creatures" for determining spells and effects, and polymorph specifies that the target has to be a living creature and must turn into a living creature, so a Warforged may only become another Warforged (or, of course, an ordinary living thing) with polymorph. Alter self has no such stipulation, and lets a Warforged become anything of the Construct Type with less than 5 HD.