Alternate magic system? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate magic system? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Laszlo Koller
03-23-04, 08:03 PM Does anyone know of any alternate magic or spell systems out there for use in d20 D&D? Our group has become disenchanted (no pun intended) with the limitations of the current system. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks!
wdarkk
03-23-04, 08:23 PM Unearthed Arcana has a bunch.

One thing I'd considered is a system based on the Slayers anime - mash all the spellcasting classes together, use the wizard spell acquisition and spell points. Sorta a whole bunch of UA ideas combined.
NorthSaber
03-23-04, 08:46 PM We're using Unearthed Arcana to create an "Unlimited Mana" magic system over here (http://tinyurl.com/2ha6r). Come over and take a look (you should have Unearthed Arcana though - but it's a great book and I recommend it to everyone)!
Laszlo Koller
03-24-04, 12:08 AM Thanks for the ideas so far. Anyone have any recommendations for replacing the existing spells with a more generic spell resolution system? For example, I never did like the fact that mage armor, expeditious retreat, and magic missile were on par with erase, alarm, and ventriloquism... and these are all 1st-level spells. Not only are these spells too specific in their usage, but many of the spells don't get better as a spellcaster increases in level. I understand that a 20th-level wizard can cast "wish" and what not, but such a wizard's 1st-level spells should still be useful. Think of it, if you've been doing something for a large part of your life, then you'll be darn good at it after ten or twenty years--it becomes almost second nature. Unfortunately, the current spell system doesn't reflect this at all.
wdarkk
03-24-04, 12:15 AM Most of the spells mentioned do get better no matter how high in level you go - duration is often x (say 1 round) per level. Range almost always is, unless it's personal or touch (and the occasional fixed spell).

One option would be to use caster level /2 in determining save DCs rather than spell level.

So Burning Hands from a 20th level wizard with 26 INT has a DC of 10+10+8=28. Not bad.
Laszlo Koller
03-24-04, 12:26 AM Perhaps I picked some less than stellar examples, but I think the point I'm trying to make is still a valid one (...at least I think so...).

Also, a topped out magic missile with 5 missiles at 1d4+1 per missile or sleep with its 4 HD limit, somehow just don't compare equally versus the current higher level spells. In my opinion, high level spellcasters should still be able to use their lower level spells (and effectively at that) even when they already have access to the 9th-level spell list.

I guess that's what my point was.

The current system doesn't handle this well. I was hoping that someone might have a more generic spell resolution system that allowed spellcasters access to a type of effect that increased in power to match their increase in spellcasting ability.

Anyway, that's just my thinking on this topic.
wdarkk
03-24-04, 12:58 AM Well, you could remove all the level caps, allowing as many magic missiles as they have caster levels for. It might require a serious beef of the non-casters to compensate, though. Also ban almost all things that provide large increases to caster level, or don't allow them to stack. Expect Empower and Maximize to become overpowered to insanity.
Tisner44
03-24-04, 01:14 AM The reason for the caps is that after that level youhave lightning bolt and fireball and most of the other nasty 3&4 lev spells.

Actually I always fill my lower slots with the nifty spells and if the player has an imagination should find all sorts of things to do with them.

Why put dumb low lev damage spells in those slots when you can do far more damage with a better DC in the higher slots?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Laszlo Koller 03-23-04, 08:03 PM	Does anyone know of any alternate magic or spell systems out there for use in d20 D&D? Our group has become disenchanted (no pun intended) with the limitations of the current system. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks!
wdarkk 03-23-04, 08:23 PM	Unearthed Arcana has a bunch. One thing I'd considered is a system based on the Slayers anime - mash all the spellcasting classes together, use the wizard spell acquisition and spell points. Sorta a whole bunch of UA ideas combined.
NorthSaber 03-23-04, 08:46 PM	We're using Unearthed Arcana to create an "Unlimited Mana" magic system over here (http://tinyurl.com/2ha6r). Come over and take a look (you should have Unearthed Arcana though - but it's a great book and I recommend it to everyone)!
Laszlo Koller 03-24-04, 12:08 AM	Thanks for the ideas so far. Anyone have any recommendations for replacing the existing spells with a more generic spell resolution system? For example, I never did like the fact that mage armor, expeditious retreat, and magic missile were on par with erase, alarm, and ventriloquism... and these are all 1st-level spells. Not only are these spells too specific in their usage, but many of the spells don't get better as a spellcaster increases in level. I understand that a 20th-level wizard can cast "wish" and what not, but such a wizard's 1st-level spells should still be useful. Think of it, if you've been doing something for a large part of your life, then you'll be darn good at it after ten or twenty years--it becomes almost second nature. Unfortunately, the current spell system doesn't reflect this at all.
wdarkk 03-24-04, 12:15 AM	Most of the spells mentioned do get better no matter how high in level you go - duration is often x (say 1 round) per level. Range almost always is, unless it's personal or touch (and the occasional fixed spell). One option would be to use caster level /2 in determining save DCs rather than spell level. So Burning Hands from a 20th level wizard with 26 INT has a DC of 10+10+8=28. Not bad.
Laszlo Koller 03-24-04, 12:26 AM	Perhaps I picked some less than stellar examples, but I think the point I'm trying to make is still a valid one (...at least I think so...). Also, a topped out magic missile with 5 missiles at 1d4+1 per missile or sleep with its 4 HD limit, somehow just don't compare equally versus the current higher level spells. In my opinion, high level spellcasters should still be able to use their lower level spells (and effectively at that) even when they already have access to the 9th-level spell list. I guess that's what my point was. The current system doesn't handle this well. I was hoping that someone might have a more generic spell resolution system that allowed spellcasters access to a type of effect that increased in power to match their increase in spellcasting ability. Anyway, that's just my thinking on this topic.
wdarkk 03-24-04, 12:58 AM	Well, you could remove all the level caps, allowing as many magic missiles as they have caster levels for. It might require a serious beef of the non-casters to compensate, though. Also ban almost all things that provide large increases to caster level, or don't allow them to stack. Expect Empower and Maximize to become overpowered to insanity.
Tisner44 03-24-04, 01:14 AM	The reason for the caps is that after that level youhave lightning bolt and fireball and most of the other nasty 3&4 lev spells. Actually I always fill my lower slots with the nifty spells and if the player has an imagination should find all sorts of things to do with them. Why put dumb low lev damage spells in those slots when you can do far more damage with a better DC in the higher slots?