Alternate Sorcerer Spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate Sorcerer Spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
b3jsd73jfx
05-24-06, 10:34 AM Ok, in the PHB under the Sorcerer topic where it talks about spells, we see the following information:
Spells:
A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
Now the part in bold is what gets me. If the spells are primarily drawn from the given spell list, what other spells are there? Sure you can make your own, but if that was the only given solution it would say the same thing for the wizard (which it doesn't). So i'm wondering if perhaps i'm overlooking something and it's possible to choose spells from other places? Obviously you can't choose from the divine list because it says sorcerers cast arcane spells. Any ideas?
Harliquinn
05-24-06, 10:53 AM I was looking at this the other night as well for some reason, and it struck me as a bit odd there also.

In addition, in Unearthed Arcana, there's a quick mention that sorcerers can naturally cast a lower level spell in a higher level slot. Is this mentioned somewhere or was it referring to a specific feat?
tarkin
05-24-06, 11:31 AM This is supposed to represent the facts that:

A) Certain spells on the Wiz-Sorc list are not castable by Sorcerors (Mnemomic Enhancer)

B) The DM is allowed to add spells to their list (as in, when new books come out, he can say yes, you get the spells from Players Handbook II that are on the list).

But, no you can not cast a spell that is not on your list. Otherwise a Bard/Sorceror would be able to use his sorceror slots to cast all his bard spells cause he 'knows the spells'.

=======

As per the PHB rules, anyone can downgrade a spell slot. This typically happens if your stat is not high enough.

That is a 20th level wizard with an Int of 18 can not learn any 9th level spells, but he is allowed to use his 9th level slots to memorize an 8th level spell.

Of coures, if he has the feat Heighten, he can do it and also gain the benefit of higher DC's.

But even without the Heighten feat, he can still use the slots to memorize an 8th (or 7th or 6th or any other level below 9).
b3jsd73jfx
05-24-06, 11:44 AM But, no you can not cast a spell that is not on your list. Otherwise a Bard/Sorceror would be able to use his sorceror slots to cast all his bard spells cause he 'knows the spells'.
And what's to say he shouldn't be able to? What if all this time we believed the sorcerer was underpowered because he doesn't get as many spells, but really he has the ability to cast all these other spells. I don't have my book on me at this moment, but to the best of my knowledge, nowhere in the sorcerer list does it specify that his spells may only be from the Wizard/Sorcerer list. If he knows the bard spells, why can't he cast them? This actually makes logical sense.
Can we get some other opinions please?
Harliquinn
05-24-06, 12:02 PM As per the PHB rules, anyone can downgrade a spell slot. This typically happens if your stat is not high enough.

Thanks. I did find that now. However, in Unearthed Arcane, they seemed to imply that a Wizard did not have that flexibility (This was in the write-up on Spell List Variant for wizards).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
b3jsd73jfx 05-24-06, 10:34 AM	Ok, in the PHB under the Sorcerer topic where it talks about spells, we see the following information: Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. Now the part in bold is what gets me. If the spells are primarily drawn from the given spell list, what other spells are there? Sure you can make your own, but if that was the only given solution it would say the same thing for the wizard (which it doesn't). So i'm wondering if perhaps i'm overlooking something and it's possible to choose spells from other places? Obviously you can't choose from the divine list because it says sorcerers cast arcane spells. Any ideas?
Harliquinn 05-24-06, 10:53 AM	I was looking at this the other night as well for some reason, and it struck me as a bit odd there also. In addition, in Unearthed Arcana, there's a quick mention that sorcerers can naturally cast a lower level spell in a higher level slot. Is this mentioned somewhere or was it referring to a specific feat?
tarkin 05-24-06, 11:31 AM	This is supposed to represent the facts that: A) Certain spells on the Wiz-Sorc list are not castable by Sorcerors (Mnemomic Enhancer) B) The DM is allowed to add spells to their list (as in, when new books come out, he can say yes, you get the spells from Players Handbook II that are on the list). But, no you can not cast a spell that is not on your list. Otherwise a Bard/Sorceror would be able to use his sorceror slots to cast all his bard spells cause he 'knows the spells'. ======= As per the PHB rules, anyone can downgrade a spell slot. This typically happens if your stat is not high enough. That is a 20th level wizard with an Int of 18 can not learn any 9th level spells, but he is allowed to use his 9th level slots to memorize an 8th level spell. Of coures, if he has the feat Heighten, he can do it and also gain the benefit of higher DC's. But even without the Heighten feat, he can still use the slots to memorize an 8th (or 7th or 6th or any other level below 9).
b3jsd73jfx 05-24-06, 11:44 AM	But, no you can not cast a spell that is not on your list. Otherwise a Bard/Sorceror would be able to use his sorceror slots to cast all his bard spells cause he 'knows the spells'. And what's to say he shouldn't be able to? What if all this time we believed the sorcerer was underpowered because he doesn't get as many spells, but really he has the ability to cast all these other spells. I don't have my book on me at this moment, but to the best of my knowledge, nowhere in the sorcerer list does it specify that his spells may only be from the Wizard/Sorcerer list. If he knows the bard spells, why can't he cast them? This actually makes logical sense. Can we get some other opinions please?
Harliquinn 05-24-06, 12:02 PM	As per the PHB rules, anyone can downgrade a spell slot. This typically happens if your stat is not high enough. Thanks. I did find that now. However, in Unearthed Arcane, they seemed to imply that a Wizard did not have that flexibility (This was in the write-up on Spell List Variant for wizards).