Alternative Spellcasting System [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative Spellcasting System [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LordPendragon
08-11-06, 06:03 PM Alternative Spellcasting System

This change in the magic system is meant to shorten the gap between casters and non-casters, and also to highlight what should be a caster's weakness - endurance. It's entirely possible for a caster under this sytem to wreak havoc for 5 rounds with level 9 spells, but that leaves him out of ammo for the rest of the day.

Obviously, this change will weaken the party overall, since the spellcasters have been weakened considerably. A party using these rules should probably be against encounters of 80% the EL they would normally be facing.

Basics
- Every caster level gains you 2 spell points
- To cast a spell, it costs 1 spell point per spell level
- Every caster level gains you 1 spell known
- The maximum level of spells you can learn is (caster level + 1)/2
- You add your primary casting stat's modifier to your spell points
- Combine spell points and caster levels for classes using the same primary stat
- Spell points are recharged by resting for 8 hours
- Metamagic feats increase the level of a spell (and cost) as normal
- Metamagic feats never increase the casting time of a spell

Intelligence Based Casting
The spell list for Intelligence based casters includes all spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Intelligence based casting is arcane and incurs arcane spell failure from armour. At the beginning of each day, an Intelligence based caster chooses 1 spell he knows for every 2 caster levels he has (round up), and he may only cast those spells for that day.

Wisdom Based Casting
The spell list for Wisdom based casters includes all spells from both the Cleric and Druid spell lists. Wisdom based casting is divine and can be performed in armour without failure. At the beginning of each day, a Wisdom based caster chooses 1 spell he knows for every 2 caster levels he has (round up), and he may only cast those spells for that day.

Charisma Based Casting
The spell list for Charisma based casters includes all spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Charisma based casting is arcane and incurs arcane spell failure from armour. A Charisma based caster does not need to choose spells at the beginning of a day, and may cast any spell he knows at any time.

Clerics and Druids gain 1 Wisdom based caster level for every class level.

Sorcerers gain 1 Charisma based caster level for every class level.

Wizards gain 1 Intelligence based caster level for every class level.

Rangers and Paladins gain 1 Wisdom based caster level for every 4 class levels.

Bards gain 1 Charisma based caster level for every 2 class levels. Additionally, Bards may choose their spells known from either the divine or arcane spell lists, but cast all their spells as arcane spells.

This is all really just the first stages of a complete overhaul on the magic and class systems currently in place in D&D. I figured I'd post just this much on the boards, since the other changes are fairly radical (and not quite completed).

If anyone has opinions or suggestions, I'd like to hear them.
Thiez
08-11-06, 06:36 PM Just toss out the preparation for all casters, remove the sorcerer, and give the wizard the option of casting with charisma instead of intelligence at first level.

Wizards lose their versatility. Even sorcerers have less spells known in your system. Nine first level spells do not equal a ninth level spell.

Take a look at the XPH powerpoint system.

I'm sorry but I think your system sucks.
Daosus
08-12-06, 01:47 AM To be a tad more constructive:

At medium to high levels, it is irrelevant how many spells per day you have. What matters is your power per round. With this system, you could potentially unleash 5 rounds of hell, which would be enough to end up to 4 appropriate challenges. That's it, you're done for the day. This system makes magic very very powerful.

Basically, consider that a fireball is more powerful than three magic missiles, because it only takes you one round to fire off the fireball, leaving two more rounds to do something else.

I'd suggest, as the above poster did, to look at the XPH. I'm not a fan of that system, but it is more balanced than yours is. Alternatively, look at Arcana Unearthed, which is a different approach to casting as well. I like it, you may not.

This is not meant to be insulting, I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Creating a balanced system is hard...very hard.....heck, I don't think Wizards has done it yet :P So, don't lose hope, but study up a bit more.
Artix_the_Incarnate
08-12-06, 12:31 PM There is already a spell point system in Unearthed Arcana. If you want a good and balanced base to work off of, try there. If you don't like it, or it doesn't quite fit in, then you can tweak it.
LordPendragon
08-12-06, 01:52 PM Thank you for the feedback, whether constructive or not. I checked UA and the XPH before writing this up, so I know what those books have to offer. Unfortunately, they tend to increase the power of spellcasters, whereas my main goal is to decrease their power.

Daosus... I see what you mean about the high level spells and being able to fire them off 1 by 1, but do you really think 1 level 9 spell is enough to end a level-appropriate encounter?? This is supposed to be based off an average of 4 encounters per day, after all.

If we assume that the party will always have the ability to stop and rest between encounters, then yes this is a powerful system; though it's not any more powerful than normal spellcasting, in which 5 level 9 spells per day isn't difficult to get. If the party can rest after every fight, then probably the next step is to remove some of the higher spell levels. Maybe only let full casters make it to 7th level spells, Bards get to 4, and Paladins get to 2.

Remember, I'm not trying to make this balanced with the current spellcasting system. I'm trying to make it balanced with the current melee combat system.

Any comments??
Yunt
08-21-06, 01:36 AM I'm curious what you perceive as unbalanced about the current system. I'm relatively new to the game and I've definitely heard that spellcasters rock, even unreasonably so, at higher levels.

I'm curious though if the balance you're after is going to happen on the monsters/enemies' niche side of things. Rather than reducing the abilities of the casters maybe more magic resistant encounters would tweak it the way you'd like? Instead of a blanket rule that takes power away from your players you could mix up your encounters to de-emphasize the powerful casters without leaving them feeling nerfed?

I'm personally leery of taking things away from players who have earned their gear and advancement.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LordPendragon 08-11-06, 06:03 PM	Alternative Spellcasting System This change in the magic system is meant to shorten the gap between casters and non-casters, and also to highlight what should be a caster's weakness - endurance. It's entirely possible for a caster under this sytem to wreak havoc for 5 rounds with level 9 spells, but that leaves him out of ammo for the rest of the day. Obviously, this change will weaken the party overall, since the spellcasters have been weakened considerably. A party using these rules should probably be against encounters of 80% the EL they would normally be facing. Basics - Every caster level gains you 2 spell points - To cast a spell, it costs 1 spell point per spell level - Every caster level gains you 1 spell known - The maximum level of spells you can learn is (caster level + 1)/2 - You add your primary casting stat's modifier to your spell points - Combine spell points and caster levels for classes using the same primary stat - Spell points are recharged by resting for 8 hours - Metamagic feats increase the level of a spell (and cost) as normal - Metamagic feats never increase the casting time of a spell Intelligence Based Casting The spell list for Intelligence based casters includes all spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Intelligence based casting is arcane and incurs arcane spell failure from armour. At the beginning of each day, an Intelligence based caster chooses 1 spell he knows for every 2 caster levels he has (round up), and he may only cast those spells for that day. Wisdom Based Casting The spell list for Wisdom based casters includes all spells from both the Cleric and Druid spell lists. Wisdom based casting is divine and can be performed in armour without failure. At the beginning of each day, a Wisdom based caster chooses 1 spell he knows for every 2 caster levels he has (round up), and he may only cast those spells for that day. Charisma Based Casting The spell list for Charisma based casters includes all spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Charisma based casting is arcane and incurs arcane spell failure from armour. A Charisma based caster does not need to choose spells at the beginning of a day, and may cast any spell he knows at any time. Clerics and Druids gain 1 Wisdom based caster level for every class level. Sorcerers gain 1 Charisma based caster level for every class level. Wizards gain 1 Intelligence based caster level for every class level. Rangers and Paladins gain 1 Wisdom based caster level for every 4 class levels. Bards gain 1 Charisma based caster level for every 2 class levels. Additionally, Bards may choose their spells known from either the divine or arcane spell lists, but cast all their spells as arcane spells. This is all really just the first stages of a complete overhaul on the magic and class systems currently in place in D&D. I figured I'd post just this much on the boards, since the other changes are fairly radical (and not quite completed). If anyone has opinions or suggestions, I'd like to hear them.
Thiez 08-11-06, 06:36 PM	Just toss out the preparation for all casters, remove the sorcerer, and give the wizard the option of casting with charisma instead of intelligence at first level. Wizards lose their versatility. Even sorcerers have less spells known in your system. Nine first level spells do not equal a ninth level spell. Take a look at the XPH powerpoint system. I'm sorry but I think your system sucks.
Daosus 08-12-06, 01:47 AM	To be a tad more constructive: At medium to high levels, it is irrelevant how many spells per day you have. What matters is your power per round. With this system, you could potentially unleash 5 rounds of hell, which would be enough to end up to 4 appropriate challenges. That's it, you're done for the day. This system makes magic very very powerful. Basically, consider that a fireball is more powerful than three magic missiles, because it only takes you one round to fire off the fireball, leaving two more rounds to do something else. I'd suggest, as the above poster did, to look at the XPH. I'm not a fan of that system, but it is more balanced than yours is. Alternatively, look at Arcana Unearthed, which is a different approach to casting as well. I like it, you may not. This is not meant to be insulting, I'm sorry if it comes across that way. Creating a balanced system is hard...very hard.....heck, I don't think Wizards has done it yet :P So, don't lose hope, but study up a bit more.
Artix_the_Incarnate 08-12-06, 12:31 PM	There is already a spell point system in Unearthed Arcana. If you want a good and balanced base to work off of, try there. If you don't like it, or it doesn't quite fit in, then you can tweak it.
LordPendragon 08-12-06, 01:52 PM	Thank you for the feedback, whether constructive or not. I checked UA and the XPH before writing this up, so I know what those books have to offer. Unfortunately, they tend to increase the power of spellcasters, whereas my main goal is to decrease their power. Daosus... I see what you mean about the high level spells and being able to fire them off 1 by 1, but do you really think 1 level 9 spell is enough to end a level-appropriate encounter?? This is supposed to be based off an average of 4 encounters per day, after all. If we assume that the party will always have the ability to stop and rest between encounters, then yes this is a powerful system; though it's not any more powerful than normal spellcasting, in which 5 level 9 spells per day isn't difficult to get. If the party can rest after every fight, then probably the next step is to remove some of the higher spell levels. Maybe only let full casters make it to 7th level spells, Bards get to 4, and Paladins get to 2. Remember, I'm not trying to make this balanced with the current spellcasting system. I'm trying to make it balanced with the current melee combat system. Any comments??
Yunt 08-21-06, 01:36 AM	I'm curious what you perceive as unbalanced about the current system. I'm relatively new to the game and I've definitely heard that spellcasters rock, even unreasonably so, at higher levels. I'm curious though if the balance you're after is going to happen on the monsters/enemies' niche side of things. Rather than reducing the abilities of the casters maybe more magic resistant encounters would tweak it the way you'd like? Instead of a blanket rule that takes power away from your players you could mix up your encounters to de-emphasize the powerful casters without leaving them feeling nerfed? I'm personally leery of taking things away from players who have earned their gear and advancement.