Alternative to spell components: Manifestations? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternative to spell components: Manifestations? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
okaynowa
09-09-04, 05:36 AM This thought occurred to me while tooling around with the hexblade class. Admittedly I was looking for a way around arcane spell failure, but I soon became more interested in the role-playing opportunities. So, the theory:

Instead of somatic, verbal, and material components, arcane spells (and divine spells, for that matter) could have manifestations similar to those exhibited by psionics. Whenever the sorcerer/wizard/druid/cleric casts a spell, the manipulation of magical energy creates a local disturbance that reality smoothes out through a secondary effect. For example:

1) A cleric casts animate dead, and all perishable food within 100' suddenly spoils.

2) A sorceror casts teleport to infiltrate a castle, and half the mirrors in the castle suddenly shatter.

3) A wizard casts mage hand, and all open flames nearby start burning green.

4) A druid casts animal growth, and for the next few minutes sprouts a tail.

These effects of these manifestations could be broadly laid out by spell school (so transmutation manifestations are different from divination manifestations) and spell level (so a 1st-3rd level spell has less impact than a 6th-9th level spell).

These manifestations are largely inspired by old folklore about how to spot witches, superstitions about the fey and luck, and so forth. Keeping in mind that this alternate rule would wipe out armor restrictions, I'd try to design them along the following guidelines:

1) At the very least, the manifestations should make it patently obvious that someone is casting a spell nearby-- and more often than not, they should show specifically who.

2) The manifestations should be inconvenient somehow to the spellcaster, but not to the point of penalizing any dice rolls (unless it's a really, really high level spell?).

3) The manifestations should not be interpreted in such a way that they actually end up benefitting the caster.
3b) To this end, the DM should have some leeway in determining manifestations. Take the above example of the mirror-breaking sorcerer: if an enemy wizard in the castle were using a mirror as a focus to cast scry, the DM could rule that instead of breaking, the mirror merely tarnishes; or, maybe there's a freakish manifestation of flies in the castle instead.

Obviously, this system would require a little more work than the V, S, M system already in place, and there's a chance the players (and DM) could find implementing such a system more trouble than it's worth. But, it could force spellcasters to exercise a little more caution when choosing where and when they use their magic. The social side effects are potentially interesting, too-- wizards might suddenly become less welcome at inns if the milk curdles and the bread rots every time they wander by (ever wonder why they live alone in towers?).
Adrez Nesnsid
09-09-04, 01:59 PM To replace all spell components with manifestations would be a bit extreme, and make magic a bit too psionics-like. However, as long as at least one component (and not a component which doesn't really have a physical aspect, such as an XP component) is left unreplaced (before metamagic enhancements) I think that it would be a pretty cool idea.

It sort of reminds me of the Second Edition, "Wild Mage", variant wizard class, which, among other features, had a chance for any spell cast by the Wild Mage to manifest a strange, extra, random effect.

On that note, maybe instead of every spell having a specific manifestation, perhaps some spells, or some schools of spells ahould have a table of possible manifestations associated with them.
okaynowa
09-10-04, 01:25 AM I'm currently developing a list/table of common manifestations by spell school (thus relieving the DM of on-the-spot creative requirements ;) ). Note that while these tabled manifestations make it fairly easy to tell what school a spell came from after it has been cast, they grant no bonus to Spellcraft checks to identify during a counterspelling. Manifestations happen immediately after the casting, not before/during.

Under this system I would be in favor of keeping traditional spell components where those components are flavorful or somehow integral to the spell--especially expensive material components like the mirror for scry or the "snowman" for simulacrum, or circles for high-level summonings.

As for metamagic feats, this system would generally render Still Spell and Silent Spell unnecessary (or at least less useful). I'd avoid implementing any sort of "Suppress Manifestation" feat, too, since then players would just take that feat and never think about side effects again. Instead, I'd borrow a page from Arcana Unearthed's magic system, and allow spellcasters to suppress manifestations by increasing their casting time (up one step from standard action to 1 round in most cases). This system would represent the caster taking the time to ease the spell into reality, rather than just forcing it through.

I remember that 2nd edition supplement-- I think it was the Book of Magic or somesuch. There were some weird things in that, quite novel at the time. It'd be nice to look back at it and see what made it into 3rd.
[GSV] Kirstar
09-10-04, 03:39 AM see if you can pick up a copy of the 2nd ed Darksun Hardback book.

Magic in darksun used to manifest additional effects .

you had a small chance of hiding this effect so you could cast in secret
okaynowa
09-10-04, 03:54 AM I remember the Darksun magic as well-- had the box set. They updated some of the rules for defiler and preserver magic in an issue of Dragon Magazine a year or so back-- seemed to work pretty well.

For those who never read Darksun, in that campaign all arcane spells drew energy (mana, whatever) right out of the environment, blighting the soil in a radius around the caster. The default wizard was a defiler. Preservers were mages who took the time to cast their spells so that they didn't ruin the land.

This is exactly along the lines of what I'm talking about, and was definitely in the back of my mind when I suggested manifestations. To me, it makes magic seem more like magic (and less like mime ;) ).
[GSV] Kirstar
09-10-04, 09:56 AM and each caster had things happen when he cast spells.

such as blue flames up & down his arms or peels of thunders

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
okaynowa 09-09-04, 05:36 AM	This thought occurred to me while tooling around with the hexblade class. Admittedly I was looking for a way around arcane spell failure, but I soon became more interested in the role-playing opportunities. So, the theory: Instead of somatic, verbal, and material components, arcane spells (and divine spells, for that matter) could have manifestations similar to those exhibited by psionics. Whenever the sorcerer/wizard/druid/cleric casts a spell, the manipulation of magical energy creates a local disturbance that reality smoothes out through a secondary effect. For example: 1) A cleric casts animate dead, and all perishable food within 100' suddenly spoils. 2) A sorceror casts teleport to infiltrate a castle, and half the mirrors in the castle suddenly shatter. 3) A wizard casts mage hand, and all open flames nearby start burning green. 4) A druid casts animal growth, and for the next few minutes sprouts a tail. These effects of these manifestations could be broadly laid out by spell school (so transmutation manifestations are different from divination manifestations) and spell level (so a 1st-3rd level spell has less impact than a 6th-9th level spell). These manifestations are largely inspired by old folklore about how to spot witches, superstitions about the fey and luck, and so forth. Keeping in mind that this alternate rule would wipe out armor restrictions, I'd try to design them along the following guidelines: 1) At the very least, the manifestations should make it patently obvious that someone is casting a spell nearby-- and more often than not, they should show specifically who. 2) The manifestations should be inconvenient somehow to the spellcaster, but not to the point of penalizing any dice rolls (unless it's a really, really high level spell?). 3) The manifestations should not be interpreted in such a way that they actually end up benefitting the caster. 3b) To this end, the DM should have some leeway in determining manifestations. Take the above example of the mirror-breaking sorcerer: if an enemy wizard in the castle were using a mirror as a focus to cast scry, the DM could rule that instead of breaking, the mirror merely tarnishes; or, maybe there's a freakish manifestation of flies in the castle instead. Obviously, this system would require a little more work than the V, S, M system already in place, and there's a chance the players (and DM) could find implementing such a system more trouble than it's worth. But, it could force spellcasters to exercise a little more caution when choosing where and when they use their magic. The social side effects are potentially interesting, too-- wizards might suddenly become less welcome at inns if the milk curdles and the bread rots every time they wander by (ever wonder why they live alone in towers?).
Adrez Nesnsid 09-09-04, 01:59 PM	To replace all spell components with manifestations would be a bit extreme, and make magic a bit too psionics-like. However, as long as at least one component (and not a component which doesn't really have a physical aspect, such as an XP component) is left unreplaced (before metamagic enhancements) I think that it would be a pretty cool idea. It sort of reminds me of the Second Edition, "Wild Mage", variant wizard class, which, among other features, had a chance for any spell cast by the Wild Mage to manifest a strange, extra, random effect. On that note, maybe instead of every spell having a specific manifestation, perhaps some spells, or some schools of spells ahould have a table of possible manifestations associated with them.
okaynowa 09-10-04, 01:25 AM	I'm currently developing a list/table of common manifestations by spell school (thus relieving the DM of on-the-spot creative requirements ;) ). Note that while these tabled manifestations make it fairly easy to tell what school a spell came from after it has been cast, they grant no bonus to Spellcraft checks to identify during a counterspelling. Manifestations happen immediately after the casting, not before/during. Under this system I would be in favor of keeping traditional spell components where those components are flavorful or somehow integral to the spell--especially expensive material components like the mirror for scry or the "snowman" for simulacrum, or circles for high-level summonings. As for metamagic feats, this system would generally render Still Spell and Silent Spell unnecessary (or at least less useful). I'd avoid implementing any sort of "Suppress Manifestation" feat, too, since then players would just take that feat and never think about side effects again. Instead, I'd borrow a page from Arcana Unearthed's magic system, and allow spellcasters to suppress manifestations by increasing their casting time (up one step from standard action to 1 round in most cases). This system would represent the caster taking the time to ease the spell into reality, rather than just forcing it through. I remember that 2nd edition supplement-- I think it was the Book of Magic or somesuch. There were some weird things in that, quite novel at the time. It'd be nice to look back at it and see what made it into 3rd.
[GSV] Kirstar 09-10-04, 03:39 AM	see if you can pick up a copy of the 2nd ed Darksun Hardback book. Magic in darksun used to manifest additional effects . you had a small chance of hiding this effect so you could cast in secret
okaynowa 09-10-04, 03:54 AM	I remember the Darksun magic as well-- had the box set. They updated some of the rules for defiler and preserver magic in an issue of Dragon Magazine a year or so back-- seemed to work pretty well. For those who never read Darksun, in that campaign all arcane spells drew energy (mana, whatever) right out of the environment, blighting the soil in a radius around the caster. The default wizard was a defiler. Preservers were mages who took the time to cast their spells so that they didn't ruin the land. This is exactly along the lines of what I'm talking about, and was definitely in the back of my mind when I suggested manifestations. To me, it makes magic seem more like magic (and less like mime ;) ).
[GSV] Kirstar 09-10-04, 09:56 AM	and each caster had things happen when he cast spells. such as blue flames up & down his arms or peels of thunders