AMF, AM Aura, AM Ray & avoiding effects [Archive] - Wizards Community

AMF, AM Aura, AM Ray & avoiding effects [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zarreth_Nessad
07-18-07, 03:57 AM Thought I had found a spell the other day that allowed a caster to cast his spells while under the effects of Antimagic (field/ray/aura). Upon trying to find it again, however, the closest I could find was Invoke Magic, a 9th level spell, from the Lords of Madness (Book of Aberrations). It casts as a swift action, but only lasts one round, then only spells of certain levels can be cast, and you have to burn 1000 g in the form of the material component. Is there any better spell than this, or would one have to be researched? I know for AMF the best thing is to get out of the way, I'm not looking for "other ways" than spells right now for avoidance.

Also, would one who is under the effects of Invoke Magic be able to cast spells into AMF's, Dead Magic Zones, etc?
bigbythewise
07-18-07, 03:27 PM Thought I had found a spell the other day that allowed a caster to cast his spells while under the effects of Antimagic (field/ray/aura). Upon trying to find it again, however, the closest I could find was Invoke Magic, a 9th level spell, from the Lords of Madness (Book of Aberrations). It casts as a swift action, but only lasts one round, then only spells of certain levels can be cast, and you have to burn 1000 g in the form of the material component. Is there any better spell than this, or would one have to be researched? I know for AMF the best thing is to get out of the way, I'm not looking for "other ways" than spells right now for avoidance.

Also, would one who is under the effects of Invoke Magic be able to cast spells into AMF's, Dead Magic Zones, etc?
Try this:

Project Image

Illusion (Shadow)Level: Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: One shadow duplicate
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
Spell Resistance: No

You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to create a quasi-real, illusory version of yourself. The projected image looks, sounds, and smells like you but is intangible. The projected image mimics your actions (including speech) unless you direct it to act differently (which is a move action).

You can see through its eyes and hear through its ears as if you were standing where it is, and during your turn you can switch from using its senses to using your own, or back again, as a free action. While you are using its senses, your body is considered blinded and deafened.

If you desire, any spell you cast whose range is touch or greater can originate from the projected image instead of from you. The projected image can’t cast any spells on itself except for illusion spells. The spells affect other targets normally, despite originating from the projected image.

Objects are affected by the projected image as if they had succeeded on their Will save.

You must maintain line of effect to the projected image at all times. If your line of effect is obstructed, the spell ends. If you use dimension door, teleport, plane shift, or a similar spell that breaks your line of effect, even momentarily, the spell ends.
Material Component

A small replica of you (a doll), which costs 5 gp to create.
tarkin
07-18-07, 05:14 PM That spell requires Line of Effect.

AMF etc. break Line of Effect.
bigbythewise
07-18-07, 05:25 PM That spell requires Line of Effect.

AMF etc. break Line of Effect.

Antimagic Field break Line of Effect only for purpose of *targeting in or out with a spell*. Otherwise said, that's only for magic which is actually *going through* the barrier.
It doesn't break general Line of Effect which is obviously intentioned in the Project Image spell description.
tarkin
07-18-07, 05:35 PM There is no such thing as "general line of effect". It is a made up, house rule term you created (or someone you play with created)

You are clearly targetting a location to put the image.

The spell is called Anti-MAGIC field. You can not put a magical image into the field.

Project Image:

"You must maintain line of effect to the projected image at all times."

Anti-Magic Field:

"An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."

Your Image is a spell effect used within the area. It is SURPRESSED. Or rather it could be if the AMF spell was not ruled to break Line of Effect, so it can not even get into the spell.
bigbythewise
07-18-07, 06:07 PM There is no such thing as "general line of effect". It is a made up, house rule term you created (or someone you play with created)

You are clearly targetting a location to put the image.

The spell is called Anti-MAGIC field. You can not put a magical image into the field.

Project Image:

"You must maintain line of effect to the projected image at all times."

Anti-Magic Field:

"An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it."

Your Image is a spell effect used within the area. It is SURPRESSED. Or rather it could be if the AMF spell was not ruled to break Line of Effect, so it can not even get into the spell.
Look.
1. You cast Projected Image.
2. Then you move with the clone away of an AMF radius.
3. Finally you cast an Antimagic Field.

Are you trying to say that a shadow clone would be suppressed even when it's outside of an AMF?
No, because it's already in place and it's outside. You do not cast the magic through. There is no LoE blocking.
Anyway, i didn't know there's something about LoE in AMF description. Yes, there is something in the Rules of the Game, but that is about AMF blocking LoE only for purpose of *casting magic through*. You can still take a rock from the ground and throw it through an AMF and that is Line of Effect.
To correct that *general* LoE. I should have said *Line of Effect* and *Line of Effect for spells*.
mvincent
07-18-07, 06:23 PM i didn't know there's something about LoE in AMF description.It's not in the description, but is instead in later clarifications.

From the 3.0 FAQ (still applicable here):
"Note that the antimagic field blocks line of effect, so an area cannot extend through the antimagic field."

From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050503a):
"When a spell is aimed into an area of antimagic from somewhere outside the area, the antimagic blocks line of effect for the spell"
and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040413a)
"An antimagic effect also blocks line of effect (see Chapter 10 in the Player's Handbook) for any magical ability, though a creature always has line of effect to itself. So a creature with a spell-like ability could use the ability on itself, even in an antimagic field. The magic still would be suppressed while the creature remains inside the antimagic effect, and the creature would gain no benefit from the ability until it left the area of antimagic."
and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040824a)
"The rules don't tell you what to do when whatever blocks the spread's line of effect isn't a solid object (for example, an antimagic field). In this case, just the treat the antimagic field like a solid obstacle."
and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040727a)
"some things that you can see through can block line of effect, such as a wall of force or an antimagic field. "
bigbythewise
07-18-07, 06:30 PM It's not in the description, but is instead in later clarifications.

From the 3.0 FAQ (still applicable here):
"Note that the antimagic field blocks line of effect, so an area cannot extend through the antimagic field."

From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050503a):
"When a spell is aimed into an area of antimagic from somewhere outside the area, the antimagic blocks line of effect for the spell"
and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040413a)
"An antimagic effect also blocks line of effect (see Chapter 10 in the Player's Handbook) for any magical ability, though a creature always has line of effect to itself. So a creature with a spell-like ability could use the ability on itself, even in an antimagic field. The magic still would be suppressed while the creature remains inside the antimagic effect, and the creature would gain no benefit from the ability until it left the area of antimagic."
and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040824a)
"The rules don't tell you what to do when whatever blocks the spread's line of effect isn't a solid object (for example, an antimagic field). In this case, just the treat the antimagic field like a solid obstacle."
and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040727a)
"some things that you can see through can block line of effect, such as a wall of force or an antimagic field. "
It still isn't in violation with my previous post.
It's about area spells, spreads and about it what i have already posted:
"When a spell is aimed into an area of antimagic from somewhere outside the area, the antimagic blocks line of effect for the spell"
mvincent
07-18-07, 06:35 PM It's not in violation with me previous post.I did not state that it was. I was merely providing information (after reading your post before you edited it).

However, I personally would view
"An antimagic effect also blocks line of effect for any magical ability"
as preventing
"You must maintain line of effect to the projected image at all times. If your line of effect is obstructed, the spell ends",
but ymmv.
Zarreth_Nessad
07-18-07, 08:59 PM None of this has anything to do with the origional post. I'm not talking about casting AM(F,A,R), I'm talking about using magic when you've already been hit with it and for some reason can't get out of the area affected (like with Antimagic Aura and Ray). Project Image has nothing to do with anything I've asked. Now, could someone who has actually read my origional post try to be helpful instead of derailing the thread?

And just to avoid people trying to say it applies because of the spell originating with the illusion, just because it originates there doesn't mean I can cast spells through it when I'm in an Antimagic Aura, or under the effects of an Antimagic Ray. I still have to be able to cast the spell, and I would have to be able to maintain the Illusion, too.

That said, any replies to my original post?
Psikerlord
07-18-07, 10:53 PM ring of counterspelling (anti-magic field) and be within the 10' radius of the AMF when it first appears. Probably not much help for a caster, though.
mvincent
07-18-07, 11:13 PM Ways to cast while in an AMF:
1) Be an archmage with Mastery of Shaping: you can cast AMF around yourself, but leave your own square free
2) Use a tower shield: if used for full cover, it can technically protect you from an AMF.
DrStalker
07-18-07, 11:27 PM 2) Use a tower shield: if used for full cover, it can technically protect you from an AMF.

Nice find.

Burst, Emanation, or Spread
[...]
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin
[...]
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell.

Then you just need a way to return fire, such as having your Projected Image cast spells, or your familiar touch the target, or just target someone that you can see from behind the shield.

Individual GMs may decide that hiding behind a few planks of wood doesn't block an AMF, but the rules look pretty clear. (for the record, I'd not allow it but I don't follow rules meticulously)
ArcTan
07-19-07, 03:07 AM Look.
1. You cast Projected Image.
2. Then you move with the clone away of an AMF radius.
3. Finally you cast an Antimagic Field.

Are you trying to say that a shadow clone would be suppressed even when it's outside of an AMF?

Yes. You broke line of effect.

It's the same as if I climbed into a solid steel cage and closed the door. The projected image vanishes.

No, because it's already in place and it's outside. You do not cast the magic through. There is no LoE blocking.

That would be true if the spell didn't say "You must maintain line of effect".

Anyway, i didn't know there's something about LoE in AMF description. Yes, there is something in the Rules of the Game, but that is about AMF blocking LoE only for purpose of *casting magic through*. You can still take a rock from the ground and throw it through an AMF and that is Line of Effect.
To correct that *general* LoE. I should have said *Line of Effect* and *Line of Effect for spells*.

Dude, this is a whole lot of nonsense. LoE is LoE. If you don't have LoE you don't have LoE. There aren't two different kinds of LoE, or LoE for this but not LoE for that.

If the spell says you have to maintain line of effect, you have to maintain line of effect. That means that the thing you have to maintain line of effect to has to be standing in a place where you could cast a spell.
ArcTan
07-19-07, 03:10 AM Also, to the OP's question: Be a Cleric. Play in Forgotten Realms. Take the feat Initiate of Mystra, from Player's Guide to Faerun. Profit.
Torrential
07-19-07, 02:51 PM Burst, Emanation, or Spread
[...]
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin
[...]
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell.

That. Is. Awsome.

It's good to be able to learn something new every day.

Also, to the OP's question: Be a Cleric. Play in Forgotten Realms. Take the feat Initiate of Mystra, from Player's Guide to Faerun. Profit.

I actually assumed that the Initiate of Mystra feat's probably what the OP's really looking for.

I mean, how does someone just "find" a spell to cast in AMF, and then lose it again... unless that person just remembered the text and not the fact that it was a feat (that also granted spell access).

Anyway, Zarreth_Nessad, like ArcTan said, a cleric with the Initiate of Mystra feat solves your problem. You cast in Antimagic Zones and Dead Magic Zones. Period. All you need's a decent caster level check. No expensive material components or any weird caveats required.
bigbythewise
07-19-07, 04:15 PM Yes. You broke line of effect.

It's the same as if I climbed into a solid steel cage and closed the door. The projected image vanishes.

That would be true if the spell didn't say "You must maintain line of effect".

Dude, this is a whole lot of nonsense. LoE is LoE. If you don't have LoE you don't have LoE. There aren't two different kinds of LoE, or LoE for this but not LoE for that.

If the spell says you have to maintain line of effect, you have to maintain line of effect. That means that the thing you have to maintain line of effect to has to be standing in a place where you could cast a spell.

Please give me some RAW proof that Antimagic Field break Line of Effect. Next, you should carefully reread Project Image description and general rule about Line of Effect. Once you'll do it, then we can continue with serious discussion.
mvincent
07-19-07, 04:24 PM Please give me some RAW proof that Antimagic Field break Line of Effect. It was given above*, but I agree that it does not break all LoE's, just in regard to magic (which this seems to be, but again, ymmv).

* yes, like any supplement, the RotG can provide new rules (provided they to not conflict with the core rule... which this does not). As such they are technically "Rules As Written". Sure, the LoE issue is not explicitly stated in the "core rules" (which is what people sometime mean instead of "RAW"), but it seems within the writer's intent.
bigbythewise
07-19-07, 04:32 PM It was given above, but I agree that it does not break all LoE's, just in regard to magic (which this seems to be, but again, ymmv)
Yes, you did. But i wanted ArcTan to bring that himself. I would like to see how he would use that info to prove his previous *assumption*.
ArcTan
07-19-07, 06:03 PM It was given above*, but I agree that it does not break all LoE's, just in regard to magic (which this seems to be, but again, ymmv).

The term "line of effect" has no meaning except in regards to magic. The term is introduced and used in the core rules only to do with magic.

For things like making ranged attacks we call it "line of sight", not "line of effect", and determine whether or not you hit based on what kind of "cover" the target has, which is a separate issue from the concept of LoE.
mvincent
07-19-07, 07:00 PM The term "line of effect" has no meaning except in regards to magic. The term is introduced and used in the core rules only to do with magic.That is not true.

From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm):
"Total Cover
If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you."

"Total Concealment
If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you."
etc.

From the glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_lineofeffect&alpha=L):
"line of effect
Line of effect tells you whether an effect (such as an explosion) can reach a creature. Line of effect is just like line of sight, except line of effect ignores restrictions on visual ability."

Non-magical effects (like mundane explosions, splash weapons, extraordinary abilities, etc.) still use LoE
bigbythewise
07-19-07, 07:47 PM The term "line of effect" has no meaning except in regards to magic. The term is introduced and used in the core rules only to do with magic.
Incorrect. Line of Effect in general is a physically unblocked path between two spots. It's blocked by a solid barrier only. No magic in here.
Antimagic Field have only additional description (in the Rules of the game and more somewhere else) that says:

"When a spell is aimed into an area of antimagic from somewhere outside the area, the antimagic blocks line of effect for the spell"

But that's only a further explanation for players to understand how AMF work with targeting *in and out* with a spell because AMF original description isn't clear enough about this.

And now, if you put 2 and 2 then you'll find out that every already created effect, spell, creature, or an object outside an AMF barrier have a Line of Effect to the caster inside.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zarreth_Nessad 07-18-07, 03:57 AM	Thought I had found a spell the other day that allowed a caster to cast his spells while under the effects of Antimagic (field/ray/aura). Upon trying to find it again, however, the closest I could find was Invoke Magic, a 9th level spell, from the Lords of Madness (Book of Aberrations). It casts as a swift action, but only lasts one round, then only spells of certain levels can be cast, and you have to burn 1000 g in the form of the material component. Is there any better spell than this, or would one have to be researched? I know for AMF the best thing is to get out of the way, I'm not looking for "other ways" than spells right now for avoidance. Also, would one who is under the effects of Invoke Magic be able to cast spells into AMF's, Dead Magic Zones, etc?
bigbythewise 07-18-07, 03:27 PM	Thought I had found a spell the other day that allowed a caster to cast his spells while under the effects of Antimagic (field/ray/aura). Upon trying to find it again, however, the closest I could find was Invoke Magic, a 9th level spell, from the Lords of Madness (Book of Aberrations). It casts as a swift action, but only lasts one round, then only spells of certain levels can be cast, and you have to burn 1000 g in the form of the material component. Is there any better spell than this, or would one have to be researched? I know for AMF the best thing is to get out of the way, I'm not looking for "other ways" than spells right now for avoidance. Also, would one who is under the effects of Invoke Magic be able to cast spells into AMF's, Dead Magic Zones, etc? Try this: Project Image Illusion (Shadow)Level: Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 7 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Effect: One shadow duplicate Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with) Spell Resistance: No You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to create a quasi-real, illusory version of yourself. The projected image looks, sounds, and smells like you but is intangible. The projected image mimics your actions (including speech) unless you direct it to act differently (which is a move action). You can see through its eyes and hear through its ears as if you were standing where it is, and during your turn you can switch from using its senses to using your own, or back again, as a free action. While you are using its senses, your body is considered blinded and deafened. If you desire, any spell you cast whose range is touch or greater can originate from the projected image instead of from you. The projected image can’t cast any spells on itself except for illusion spells. The spells affect other targets normally, despite originating from the projected image. Objects are affected by the projected image as if they had succeeded on their Will save. You must maintain line of effect to the projected image at all times. If your line of effect is obstructed, the spell ends. If you use dimension door, teleport, plane shift, or a similar spell that breaks your line of effect, even momentarily, the spell ends. Material Component A small replica of you (a doll), which costs 5 gp to create.
tarkin 07-18-07, 05:14 PM	That spell requires Line of Effect. AMF etc. break Line of Effect.
bigbythewise 07-18-07, 05:25 PM	That spell requires Line of Effect. AMF etc. break Line of Effect. Antimagic Field break Line of Effect only for purpose of targeting in or out with a spell. Otherwise said, that's only for magic which is actually going through the barrier. It doesn't break general Line of Effect which is obviously intentioned in the Project Image spell description.
tarkin 07-18-07, 05:35 PM	There is no such thing as "general line of effect". It is a made up, house rule term you created (or someone you play with created) You are clearly targetting a location to put the image. The spell is called Anti-MAGIC field. You can not put a magical image into the field. Project Image: "You must maintain line of effect to the projected image at all times." Anti-Magic Field: "An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it." Your Image is a spell effect used within the area. It is SURPRESSED. Or rather it could be if the AMF spell was not ruled to break Line of Effect, so it can not even get into the spell.
bigbythewise 07-18-07, 06:07 PM	There is no such thing as "general line of effect". It is a made up, house rule term you created (or someone you play with created) You are clearly targetting a location to put the image. The spell is called Anti-MAGIC field. You can not put a magical image into the field. Project Image: "You must maintain line of effect to the projected image at all times." Anti-Magic Field: "An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it." Your Image is a spell effect used within the area. It is SURPRESSED. Or rather it could be if the AMF spell was not ruled to break Line of Effect, so it can not even get into the spell. Look. 1. You cast Projected Image. 2. Then you move with the clone away of an AMF radius. 3. Finally you cast an Antimagic Field. Are you trying to say that a shadow clone would be suppressed even when it's outside of an AMF? No, because it's already in place and it's outside. You do not cast the magic through. There is no LoE blocking. Anyway, i didn't know there's something about LoE in AMF description. Yes, there is something in the Rules of the Game, but that is about AMF blocking LoE only for purpose of casting magic through. You can still take a rock from the ground and throw it through an AMF and that is Line of Effect. To correct that general LoE. I should have said Line of Effect and Line of Effect for spells.
mvincent 07-18-07, 06:23 PM	i didn't know there's something about LoE in AMF description.It's not in the description, but is instead in later clarifications. From the 3.0 FAQ (still applicable here): "Note that the antimagic field blocks line of effect, so an area cannot extend through the antimagic field." From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050503a): "When a spell is aimed into an area of antimagic from somewhere outside the area, the antimagic blocks line of effect for the spell" and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040413a) "An antimagic effect also blocks line of effect (see Chapter 10 in the Player's Handbook) for any magical ability, though a creature always has line of effect to itself. So a creature with a spell-like ability could use the ability on itself, even in an antimagic field. The magic still would be suppressed while the creature remains inside the antimagic effect, and the creature would gain no benefit from the ability until it left the area of antimagic." and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040824a) "The rules don't tell you what to do when whatever blocks the spread's line of effect isn't a solid object (for example, an antimagic field). In this case, just the treat the antimagic field like a solid obstacle." and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040727a) "some things that you can see through can block line of effect, such as a wall of force or an antimagic field. "
bigbythewise 07-18-07, 06:30 PM	It's not in the description, but is instead in later clarifications. From the 3.0 FAQ (still applicable here): "Note that the antimagic field blocks line of effect, so an area cannot extend through the antimagic field." From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050503a): "When a spell is aimed into an area of antimagic from somewhere outside the area, the antimagic blocks line of effect for the spell" and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040413a) "An antimagic effect also blocks line of effect (see Chapter 10 in the Player's Handbook) for any magical ability, though a creature always has line of effect to itself. So a creature with a spell-like ability could use the ability on itself, even in an antimagic field. The magic still would be suppressed while the creature remains inside the antimagic effect, and the creature would gain no benefit from the ability until it left the area of antimagic." and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040824a) "The rules don't tell you what to do when whatever blocks the spread's line of effect isn't a solid object (for example, an antimagic field). In this case, just the treat the antimagic field like a solid obstacle." and (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040727a) "some things that you can see through can block line of effect, such as a wall of force or an antimagic field. " It still isn't in violation with my previous post. It's about area spells, spreads and about it what i have already posted: "When a spell is aimed into an area of antimagic from somewhere outside the area, the antimagic blocks line of effect for the spell"
mvincent 07-18-07, 06:35 PM	It's not in violation with me previous post.I did not state that it was. I was merely providing information (after reading your post before you edited it). However, I personally would view "An antimagic effect also blocks line of effect for any magical ability" as preventing "You must maintain line of effect to the projected image at all times. If your line of effect is obstructed, the spell ends", but ymmv.
Zarreth_Nessad 07-18-07, 08:59 PM	None of this has anything to do with the origional post. I'm not talking about casting AM(F,A,R), I'm talking about using magic when you've already been hit with it and for some reason can't get out of the area affected (like with Antimagic Aura and Ray). Project Image has nothing to do with anything I've asked. Now, could someone who has actually read my origional post try to be helpful instead of derailing the thread? And just to avoid people trying to say it applies because of the spell originating with the illusion, just because it originates there doesn't mean I can cast spells through it when I'm in an Antimagic Aura, or under the effects of an Antimagic Ray. I still have to be able to cast the spell, and I would have to be able to maintain the Illusion, too. That said, any replies to my original post?
Psikerlord 07-18-07, 10:53 PM	ring of counterspelling (anti-magic field) and be within the 10' radius of the AMF when it first appears. Probably not much help for a caster, though.
mvincent 07-18-07, 11:13 PM	Ways to cast while in an AMF: 1) Be an archmage with Mastery of Shaping: you can cast AMF around yourself, but leave your own square free 2) Use a tower shield: if used for full cover, it can technically protect you from an AMF.
DrStalker 07-18-07, 11:27 PM	2) Use a tower shield: if used for full cover, it can technically protect you from an AMF. Nice find. Burst, Emanation, or Spread [...] A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin [...] An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Then you just need a way to return fire, such as having your Projected Image cast spells, or your familiar touch the target, or just target someone that you can see from behind the shield. Individual GMs may decide that hiding behind a few planks of wood doesn't block an AMF, but the rules look pretty clear. (for the record, I'd not allow it but I don't follow rules meticulously)
ArcTan 07-19-07, 03:07 AM	Look. 1. You cast Projected Image. 2. Then you move with the clone away of an AMF radius. 3. Finally you cast an Antimagic Field. Are you trying to say that a shadow clone would be suppressed even when it's outside of an AMF? Yes. You broke line of effect. It's the same as if I climbed into a solid steel cage and closed the door. The projected image vanishes. No, because it's already in place and it's outside. You do not cast the magic through. There is no LoE blocking. That would be true if the spell didn't say "You must maintain line of effect". Anyway, i didn't know there's something about LoE in AMF description. Yes, there is something in the Rules of the Game, but that is about AMF blocking LoE only for purpose of casting magic through. You can still take a rock from the ground and throw it through an AMF and that is Line of Effect. To correct that general LoE. I should have said Line of Effect and Line of Effect for spells. Dude, this is a whole lot of nonsense. LoE is LoE. If you don't have LoE you don't have LoE. There aren't two different kinds of LoE, or LoE for this but not LoE for that. If the spell says you have to maintain line of effect, you have to maintain line of effect. That means that the thing you have to maintain line of effect to has to be standing in a place where you could cast a spell.
ArcTan 07-19-07, 03:10 AM	Also, to the OP's question: Be a Cleric. Play in Forgotten Realms. Take the feat Initiate of Mystra, from Player's Guide to Faerun. Profit.
Torrential 07-19-07, 02:51 PM	Burst, Emanation, or Spread [...] A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin [...] An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. That. Is. Awsome. It's good to be able to learn something new every day. Also, to the OP's question: Be a Cleric. Play in Forgotten Realms. Take the feat Initiate of Mystra, from Player's Guide to Faerun. Profit. I actually assumed that the Initiate of Mystra feat's probably what the OP's really looking for. I mean, how does someone just "find" a spell to cast in AMF, and then lose it again... unless that person just remembered the text and not the fact that it was a feat (that also granted spell access). Anyway, Zarreth_Nessad, like ArcTan said, a cleric with the Initiate of Mystra feat solves your problem. You cast in Antimagic Zones and Dead Magic Zones. Period. All you need's a decent caster level check. No expensive material components or any weird caveats required.
bigbythewise 07-19-07, 04:15 PM	Yes. You broke line of effect. It's the same as if I climbed into a solid steel cage and closed the door. The projected image vanishes. That would be true if the spell didn't say "You must maintain line of effect". Dude, this is a whole lot of nonsense. LoE is LoE. If you don't have LoE you don't have LoE. There aren't two different kinds of LoE, or LoE for this but not LoE for that. If the spell says you have to maintain line of effect, you have to maintain line of effect. That means that the thing you have to maintain line of effect to has to be standing in a place where you could cast a spell. Please give me some RAW proof that Antimagic Field break Line of Effect. Next, you should carefully reread Project Image description and general rule about Line of Effect. Once you'll do it, then we can continue with serious discussion.
mvincent 07-19-07, 04:24 PM	Please give me some RAW proof that Antimagic Field break Line of Effect. It was given above, but I agree that it does not break all LoE's, just in regard to magic (which this seems to be, but again, ymmv). yes, like any supplement, the RotG can provide new rules (provided they to not conflict with the core rule... which this does not). As such they are technically "Rules As Written". Sure, the LoE issue is not explicitly stated in the "core rules" (which is what people sometime mean instead of "RAW"), but it seems within the writer's intent.
bigbythewise 07-19-07, 04:32 PM	It was given above, but I agree that it does not break all LoE's, just in regard to magic (which this seems to be, but again, ymmv) Yes, you did. But i wanted ArcTan to bring that himself. I would like to see how he would use that info to prove his previous assumption.
ArcTan 07-19-07, 06:03 PM	It was given above*, but I agree that it does not break all LoE's, just in regard to magic (which this seems to be, but again, ymmv). The term "line of effect" has no meaning except in regards to magic. The term is introduced and used in the core rules only to do with magic. For things like making ranged attacks we call it "line of sight", not "line of effect", and determine whether or not you hit based on what kind of "cover" the target has, which is a separate issue from the concept of LoE.
mvincent 07-19-07, 07:00 PM	The term "line of effect" has no meaning except in regards to magic. The term is introduced and used in the core rules only to do with magic.That is not true. From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm): "Total Cover If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you." "Total Concealment If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you." etc. From the glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_lineofeffect&alpha=L): "line of effect Line of effect tells you whether an effect (such as an explosion) can reach a creature. Line of effect is just like line of sight, except line of effect ignores restrictions on visual ability." Non-magical effects (like mundane explosions, splash weapons, extraordinary abilities, etc.) still use LoE
bigbythewise 07-19-07, 07:47 PM	The term "line of effect" has no meaning except in regards to magic. The term is introduced and used in the core rules only to do with magic. Incorrect. Line of Effect in general is a physically unblocked path between two spots. It's blocked by a solid barrier only. No magic in here. Antimagic Field have only additional description (in the Rules of the game and more somewhere else) that says: "When a spell is aimed into an area of antimagic from somewhere outside the area, the antimagic blocks line of effect for the spell" But that's only a further explanation for players to understand how AMF work with targeting in and out with a spell because AMF original description isn't clear enough about this. And now, if you put 2 and 2 then you'll find out that every already created effect, spell, creature, or an object outside an AMF barrier have a Line of Effect to the caster inside.