Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ultimatecalibur 12-02-06, 10:49 PM	Just over a month ago I posted the following in a missnamed thread: Lets redo the Vancian-system is a serious mysnomer for this thread title, it should be something more like, "Lets make a magic system thats different than the Vancian system." If you really wanted to remake the Vancian system you would work more like this: 1. Maintain the 10 spell levels (0-9). 2. Intergrate Metamagic completely into the magic system, instead of it being tacked on top. Some spells have Metamagic already built into them (Delayed Blast Fireball would be an option built into Fireball), while Metamagic Feats would allow you to apply their asociated Metamagic to all your known spells. 3. Spell slot use affects the effects of spells, in effect building an improved version heighten spell into every spell. (i.e. Magic Missile in a 1st level slot fires a max of 5 1d4+1 missiles, while using a 9th level slot launches a max of 25 1d12+9 missiles) 4. Compress spells with similar effects together into one spell, preventing only knowing a higher level version. (Summon Monster(s) I-IX would become Summon Monster) 5. Access to a spell is based on minimum spell access level (to learn and use Lightining Bolt you must have 3rd level spell slots, but once learned you can prepare/cast it with any level spell slot) 6. Turn some spells into item creation feats (i.e. permenancy, contingency) Rescently a new poster in that same thread commented that he found the ideas presented by me interesting, and I have started this thread to work on expanding these ideas and would gladdly take comments and critisms.
Thomar_of_Uointer 12-03-06, 01:58 AM	Umm... It looks like psionics...
SombreNote 12-03-06, 03:21 PM	and unearth arcana, but psionics is smarter and more balinced.
LostMage 12-05-06, 08:39 PM	Yes! I almost thought no one would find that post, I was going to start this thread myself in a few days. I'd like to help with that, I think it'd be a great 'almost-alternative' for the Vancian system. By the way, this isn't supposed to be a point system, so I'm not sure I see how it's related to psionics. But I don't know much about that, though.
Thomar_of_Uointer 12-05-06, 10:15 PM	Yes! I almost thought no one would find that post, I was going to start this thread myself in a few days. I'd like to help with that, I think it'd be a great 'almost-alternative' for the Vancian system. By the way, this isn't supposed to be a point system, so I'm not sure I see how it's related to psionics. But I don't know much about that, though. 1) Psionics has 9 spell levels, as there are no half-power points. Besides, 0-level spells are silly, nothing else in the game is ever 0-level. 2) Psionics allows augmentation options. 3) Psionics allows augmentation options, and has no damage caps. 4) Psionic powers are much more versatile. For example, summon astral construct. 5) You can't augment backwards in psionics. And 6 is where it breaks down and caliber is suggesting something entirely new. Thus, it looks like psionics, rather than being psionics, which is what I would recommend be used instead. Seriously, just replace everything. You still have wizards, they just use the psionics rules and books are just flavor. You still have sorcerers, they just can draw their power from anything they want rather than being draconic by default. Bards don't need too much changing, so leave them. Divine magic works fine with the vancian system (except for the druid, it's just broken), and it would set itself apart from "magic" in an entirely new manner if it was used as a replacement.
Milo HoBo 12-05-06, 10:18 PM	Yes! I almost thought no one would find that post, I was going to start this thread myself in a few days. I'd like to help with that, I think it'd be a great 'almost-alternative' for the Vancian system. By the way, this isn't supposed to be a point system, so I'm not sure I see how it's related to psionics. But I don't know much about that, though.It is similar to psionics due to the 'augmentation' of spells. Such a system would be a boon to Sorcerers. I still prefer psionics.
Ultimatecalibur 12-05-06, 11:14 PM	My basic spell slot relation idea would work something like this, a 13th level wizard could prepare Magic Missile in the following ways: As a 0 level spell that fires a 1d4 damage force missile. As a 1st level spell that fires 5 1d4+1 damage force missiles. As a 2nd level spell that fires 5 1d6+2 damage force missiles. As a 3rd level spell that fires 10 1d6+3 damage force missiles. As a 4th level spell that fires 10 1d8+4 damage force missiles. As a 5th level spell that fires 13 (15 max) 1d8+5 damage force missiles. As a 6th level spell that fires 13 (15 max) 1d10+6 damage force missiles. As a 7th level spell that fires 13 (20 max) 1d10+7 damage force missiles. Same number of slots and every thing; just no mana point, magic points or anyother points.
LostMage 12-06-06, 05:55 PM	Well, all right, it might look like psionics to you, and maybe it is. But I'd still like to see this go past that much. It looked like a good idea, I'd like to see more of it. My group can't use the Vancian system, since we've only met three times.. in one year. So I'm looking for variatians, and mana might be too much paperwork. Granted, this sort of is too, though.
Cherubaddon 12-06-06, 06:29 PM	Sorry guys, but I really don't see how this is related to psionics. Nonetheless, I really like the idea.
Thomar_of_Uointer 12-06-06, 06:36 PM	My basic spell slot relation idea would work something like this, a 13th level wizard could prepare Magic Missile in the following ways: As a 0 level spell that fires a 1d4 damage force missile. As a 1st level spell that fires 5 1d4+1 damage force missiles. As a 2nd level spell that fires 5 1d6+2 damage force missiles. As a 3rd level spell that fires 10 1d6+3 damage force missiles. As a 4th level spell that fires 10 1d8+4 damage force missiles. As a 5th level spell that fires 13 (15 max) 1d8+5 damage force missiles. As a 6th level spell that fires 13 (15 max) 1d10+6 damage force missiles. As a 7th level spell that fires 13 (20 max) 1d10+7 damage force missiles. Same number of slots and every thing; just no mana point, magic points or anyother points. That looks cool! It still uses spell slots and uses per day, it still involves individual spells, and it fixes many of the problems. However, it requires a lot of work to set up (each spell needs to be statted out ten times). I see how you did it, and it makes sense to me. I'll see if I can contribute a few things in my spare time.
Ultimatecalibur 12-06-06, 09:17 PM	The basic pattern for the max damage dice for spells of the approriate slots would be something like this: 0: 1d4 1/2.5/4 1: 5d4 5/12.5/20 2: 5d6 5/17.5/30 3: 10d6 10/35/60 4: 10d8 10/45/80 5: 15d8 15/67.5/120 6: 15d10 15/82.5/150 7: 20d10 20/110/200 8: 20d12 20/130/240 9: 25d12 25/162.5/360
Thomar_of_Uointer 12-07-06, 12:04 AM	The basic pattern for the max damage dice for spells of the approriate slots would be something like this: 0: 1d4 1/2.5/4 1: 5d4 5/12.5/20 2: 5d6 5/17.5/30 3: 10d6 10/35/60 4: 10d8 10/45/80 5: 15d8 15/67.5/120 6: 15d10 15/82.5/150 7: 20d10 20/110/200 8: 20d12 20/130/240 9: 25d12 25/162.5/360 No, this is covered in the DMG. It's just dice, and you compare to existing power levels. It would make sense to do it that way, right? How does this interact with cleric domains? Just one spell for the whole domain list?
Ultimatecalibur 12-07-06, 01:19 AM	What you mean like the healing domain? A domain that is pracitally built into the cleric already?
Thomar_of_Uointer 12-07-06, 01:32 AM	What you mean like the healing domain? A domain that is pracitally built into the cleric already? Exactly! Well, we know the cleric's overpowered, but you need spells first... How would spells be statted up? They need to be as detailed as the PHB spells.