Post/Author/DateTime	Post
april151978 06-21-04, 02:53 AM	Ok, Let's say a group of humanoids doesn't want to kill a nasty BBEG wizard for some reason, but would rather let him stay put away, but want to keep him awake and able to be conversed with... Now, I have read a few spells that could do this, but I want to make sure there limited or no loop-holes in this for the party to possibly find and exploit... So, that said, here is what I have so far... A person is imprissoned in a room, with a series of the Wall of Force spell as the walls... Now, one or more items with the spell Antimagic Field are put around the room to keep the room devoid of all magic, including supernatural and spell-like abilites... Now, if this were worked out, are there any things that anyone could see as a way for the person inside to do without magic, or anyone outside could do, except Mordenkainen's Disjunction?...
Edward 06-21-04, 03:55 AM	An epic escape artist cheque will get you out I think a rod of negation used from outside may have an effect. Edward
april151978 06-22-04, 09:35 AM	Originally posted by Edward An epic escape artist cheque will get you out I think a rod of negation used from outside may have an effect. Edward Ok, I'll look into the escape artist (though a wizard may not have a great chance at that)... As for the rod of negation, wouldn't the Anti-magic field take care of that (don't know the item well)?...
Zherog 06-22-04, 11:56 AM	Well, one problem would be that your antimagic field would suppress your walls of force, thereby allowing the imprisoned wizard to walk out. :) At least, my quick reading just now of the two spells would indicate such would happen. I could be wrong - it was a very quick reading.
Beamup 06-22-04, 12:06 PM	Originally posted by Zherog Well, one problem would be that your antimagic field would suppress your walls of force, thereby allowing the imprisoned wizard to walk out. :) At least, my quick reading just now of the two spells would indicate such would happen. I could be wrong - it was a very quick reading. Check the antimagic field description again - wall of force is specifically listed as being unaffected. The major problem I can see with the concept is that an antimagic field, being an emanation effect, will not penetrate a wall of force. Hence, any item being used to generate the effect would have to be inside the cell... and could potentially be interfered with. If you also had an antimagic field surrounding the cell (which would have to be generated by a different item than the one inside), the only ways to deal with the cell from outside would be to mess with the item generating it or a Disjunction. A rod of negation would not work, as it would have to enter the field to do anything and would then not function. I would also not allow even an Epic Escape Artist to work - some things really are just impossible, such as moving from one place to another without passing through the intervening space without using magic. An (Ex) teleport-like ability, if one existed, would be another way to get out.
april151978 06-22-04, 07:37 PM	Originally posted by Beamup Check the antimagic field description again - wall of force is specifically listed as being unaffected. The major problem I can see with the concept is that an antimagic field, being an emanation effect, will not penetrate a wall of force. Hence, any item being used to generate the effect would have to be inside the cell... and could potentially be interfered with. If you also had an antimagic field surrounding the cell (which would have to be generated by a different item than the one inside), the only ways to deal with the cell from outside would be to mess with the item generating it or a Disjunction. A rod of negation would not work, as it would have to enter the field to do anything and would then not function. I would also not allow even an Epic Escape Artist to work - some things really are just impossible, such as moving from one place to another without passing through the intervening space without using magic. An (Ex) teleport-like ability, if one existed, would be another way to get out. Would there be a way to counter disjunction?... As I see it now, I would also disallow an escape artist check (unless there was a gap one could find, but I wouldn't have that)... What if this whole thing was an artifact that used the spells as a basis for it's powers?... Can disjunction affect artifacts in this way?... What if the artifact (the prison) had spell resistance; would that make it harder to break out of this outside help?... Another consideration; guards... Golems maybe?...
The Simbul 06-22-04, 08:20 PM	You should actually craft an Antimagic Prison Cell with the craft wondrous item feat, complete with doors and the like, which radiates an Antimagic Field as a continuous effect. Just calculate the cost accordingly to the DM's guide. This amoung other things, would make the cell itself immune to most magic, hence no need for Walls of Force. In addition, have the doors and cell walls made from pure Adamantine or Mithril, which needless to say isnt going to be burrowed through or broken easily by the average spellcaster. And have the mage be bound by mithril or adamantine manacles to prevent them from running out of the cell if in fact the door is opened or something. Furthermore, Epic Spells can destroy an Antimagic Field, as well as any other spell of 9th level or lower, and Epic Spells can be cast within an Antimagic Field so long as the caster suceeds a caster level check.
april151978 06-22-04, 08:58 PM	Originally posted by The Simbul You should actually craft an Antimagic Prison Cell with the craft wondrous item feat, complete with doors and the like, which radiates an Antimagic Field as a continuous effect. Just calculate the cost accordingly to the DM's guide. This amoung other things, would make the cell itself immune to most magic, hence no need for Walls of Force. In addition, have the doors and cell walls made from pure Adamantine or Mithril, which needless to say isnt going to be burrowed through or broken easily by the average spellcaster. And have the mage be bound by mithril or adamantine manacles to prevent them from running out of the cell if in fact the door is opened or something. Furthermore, Epic Spells can destroy an Antimagic Field, as well as any other spell of 9th level or lower, and Epic Spells can be cast within an Antimagic Field so long as the caster suceeds a caster level check. Never looked to much into epic spells... What if the prison was made through epic spells?...
The Simbul 06-22-04, 09:34 PM	THen it most likely would be an opposed caster level check. Although if you are going to the trouble of using Epic Magic to imprison a single spellcaster, then you could substancially increase the Epic Spell's caster level by adding a large number of additional spellcasters in a spellcasting ritual, to lower the increase in the spellcraft DC cause by increasing its effective caster level. Furthermore, if you are the DM, then you can simply state that Epic Spells dont exist in your campaign, or you could simply make sure if wizard at hand can or cant cast them.
april151978 06-22-04, 10:43 PM	Originally posted by The Simbul THen it most likely would be an opposed caster level check. Although if you are going to the trouble of using Epic Magic to imprison a single spellcaster, then you could substancially increase the Epic Spell's caster level by adding a large number of additional spellcasters in a spellcasting ritual, to lower the increase in the spellcraft DC cause by increasing its effective caster level. Furthermore, if you are the DM, then you can simply state that Epic Spells dont exist in your campaign, or you could simply make sure if wizard at hand can or cant cast them. Actually, this is to be part of a lead into epic levels for my party... Baisicly, a group (I choose not to say so I don't ruin the surprise) made a pact with a devil for a half child (read half-fiend) to help them win a war of past... This child is trainned in the arts of sorcery and martial combat (epic sorcerer and fighter), and is used to help sway many battles in their favor... Instead of killing the half after the battles were won, they imprison him and keep him alive so he may be talked to and kept up to date, but unable to wreck havoc towards his captors (think Omega Red from X-men comics)... Part of the plot is that he could get released again by this group for some reason, and the party has to deal with that possibility... That said, maybe ritual magic is the way to go...
RaistlinBN 06-22-04, 11:08 PM	Don't forget that Shadow Weave magic bypasses antimagic fields/auras all together. So anyone with the potential (aka Shadow Weave Magic feat) to tap into that bad boy can dismantle the walls of force with no problem. Raist
Elhalyn 06-23-04, 12:59 AM	Don't forget that Shadow Weave magic bypasses antimagic fields/auras all together. No it doesn't. Shadow Weave magic is unaffected by Dead Magic areas, but still wont work in an Antimagic field.
RaistlinBN 06-23-04, 01:07 AM	I stand corrected. Looked it up in MoF p 10, and it does state that antimagic fields *do* affect shadow weave magic. I don't see how an antimagic field would affect the Shadow Weave (seeing as how it's created with Weave magic), when a dead magic zone does not. It's one of those rules that I can look at in the book, but just can't apply mechanically. Raist
Edward 06-23-04, 03:06 AM	If he has epic spells it will take a custom epic spell to hold him. If he dose not an ani magic field and an adamantine lined sell will hold him (assuming he doesn’t have any weapons on him) The only non epic defence to mords would be an item similar to a ring of counter spells but set to always counter mords. Edward
Mialee, Elven Wizard 06-23-04, 03:28 AM	Originally posted by RaistlinBN I stand corrected. Looked it up in MoF p 10, and it does state that antimagic fields *do* affect shadow weave magic. I don't see how an antimagic field would affect the Shadow Weave (seeing as how it's created with Weave magic), when a dead magic zone does not. It's one of those rules that I can look at in the book, but just can't apply mechanically. Raist Because Dead Magic zones in the Forgotten Realms are areas where Mystra's Weave is torn or doesnt exist, while Shar's Weave is still in tact. Calling them Dead Magic zones conflicts with the core rules notion of "Dead Magic", it would have caused less confusion if they simply called them Dead Weave zones or something. Dead Magic zones as a core rules concept (i.e. non-forogtten realms) however is nothing more than a permanent non-magical Antimagic Field effect over a specific area, thus a Shadow Adept spellcaster in a non-Forgotten Realms campaign setting would not recieve that benefit. Furthermore, Planes with the Dead Magic trait will likewise block a Shadow Weave spellcaster's spells, since the rules regarding the Weaves only exist on Faerun's prime material plane.
Zherog 06-23-04, 11:17 AM	Originally posted by Beamup Check the antimagic field description again - wall of force is specifically listed as being unaffected. Like I said, I figured I was wrong. I just didn't have the time at the moment to closely read both spells. Thanks. :)
Tegarius 06-23-04, 11:53 AM	why not use an imprison spell, and enchant the spot he was at with an antimagic field? An imprison can only be broken by the spell freedom, and that spell has to be cast where the person was imprisoned. (Which when then become an area where spells couldn't be cast). :devil:
Zherog 06-23-04, 12:16 PM	Probably because of this, from the original post: want to keep him awake and able to be conversed with... ;)