An un-wonky time stop [Archive] - Wizards Community

An un-wonky time stop [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pitiless_Interfector
10-15-07, 10:05 PM I've always thought that the time stop spell didn't really do justice to the idea of stopping time. After all, other creatures still act in their normal initiative order and whatnot. So, instead, here's an alternative version:

Time Stop
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Trickery 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round

You speak a word of power, and instantly, silence falls as all movement ceases.

This spell speeds up time from your perspective to the point where nothing else seems to be moving. Until the end of your turn, no creature can take any actions whatsoever (including purely mental actions or attacks of opportunity); they are effectively paralyzed, helpless, and completely unaware of their surroundings. Objects do not move unless they are in contact with you; for example, you could pick up a throwing axe and hurl it, but the weapon would halt in midair the moment you let go (it would still continue on its trajectory once time resumes flowing). Gravity, heat, pressure, poison, and similar environmental hazards can still damage you (for example, this spell will not prevent you taking damage from falling into a spiked pit, but if that pit is covered by a pressure-sensitive mechanism, you can walk over the pit safely, since the cover will not move while this spell is in effect). Any spells you cast, attacks you make, or effects you cause (such as the triggering of the aforementioned pressure-sensitive pit trap) do not take effect until the beginning of your next turn. Time resumes flowing at the beginning of your next turn; essentially, casting this spell allows you to take two full turns in a row.

There; considerably more complex, but truer to fantasy and science-fiction examples of time-stopping (plus it's just cooler).

So, anyone have any thoughts? See any issues with this version? Actually have a good reason for preferring the current one? Anything period?
Basically, you can target foes with spells and attacks and whatnot, but they don't start to take effect until time starts flowing again. Basically, you roll your attack or cast your spell (applying feats and magic item powers as warranted) while time is stopped, but the targets don't calculate their AC or their saving throw bonus until time starts flowing again. Here's an example:

Hennet, surrounded by four water monoliths with the Mage Slayer feat, casts time stop (on initiative count 12) as a swift action (which doesn't provoke AoOs from the monoliths). He then casts meteor swarm. He is currently under the effects of moment of prescience, and could choose to discharge it to gain a bonus on one of the ranged touch attacks, but decides not to. He targets each monolith with a meteor, and gets attack results of 25, 18, 19, and 27. The meteors, however, simply hang in space, barely beyond his fingertips. Hennet moves 60 feet to the left (with the aid of expeditious retreat), and since the monoliths are frozen in time, they cannot attack him for leaving their threatened area. His turn now completed, the round goes by with all creatures and effects frozen in time (this does not count against the durations of any ongoing spells or other abilities). Upon reaching initiative count 12, time resumes flowing. The meteors begin their deadly flight, and the monoliths try to duck out of the way (getting their full Dexterity bonus to their touch AC), but with touch ACs of only 12, they are all successfully hit. They all take 4d6 bludgeoning damage and 6d6 fire damage with no save, and must each make 3 DC 30 Reflex saves for half damage from the other three meteors. They receive their full Dexterity bonus to their Reflex saves, but it still is not enough. The monoliths have all taken 28d6 points of damage, and Hennet gets another full turn before they can act!
ArcTan
10-16-07, 01:38 AM Didn't they change time stop from 3.0 to 3.5 to specifically *not* allow you to target creatures with attacks and Instantaneous spells during time stop, because it was broken?

Yes, 9th-level spells should be powerful, but they shouldn't be "I won Initiative, so ha ha, I win period. Nothing you can do about it."
goawayugh
10-16-07, 09:07 AM Didn't they change time stop from 3.0 to 3.5 to specifically *not* allow you to target creatures with attacks and Instantaneous spells during time stop, because it was broken?

Yes, 9th-level spells should be powerful, but they shouldn't be "I won Initiative, so ha ha, I win period. Nothing you can do about it."

Agreed.
Nadaka
10-16-07, 09:10 AM Step 1: cast time stop and walk over to your foe while drawing your scythe
Step 2: Coup De Grace.

The save DC for the Time stop save or die is much higher than most other 9th level spells and it is not affected by spell resistance.
Pitiless_Interfector
10-16-07, 08:06 PM Step 1: cast time stop and walk over to your foe while drawing your scythe
Step 2: Coup De Grace.

The save DC for the Time stop save or die is much higher than most other 9th level spells and it is not affected by spell resistance.

Yeah, but arcanists suck at dealing damage in melee, so mass hold monster lets your party rogue and party fighter (hell, party cleric, even) walk over and deal enough damage to present a reasonably high Fort DC. True, mass hold monster allows a save, but it also doesn't automatically incapacitate every single one of your allies, either.

Didn't they change time stop from 3.0 to 3.5 to specifically *not* allow you to target creatures with attacks and Instantaneous spells during time stop, because it was broken?

Yes, 9th-level spells should be powerful, but they shouldn't be "I won Initiative, so ha ha, I win period. Nothing you can do about it."

Like I said before, the only real effect of this spell is giving you an extra turn. I repeat, an extra *turn*, not *turns.* And you have to wait to cast it until your turn actually comes around, unlike with greater celerity.

And if you're still not satisfied, would a 500-point XP cost change your mind?
runestar
10-16-07, 09:29 PM Yeah, but arcanists suck at dealing damage in melee, so mass hold monster lets your party rogue and party fighter (hell, party cleric, even) walk over and deal enough damage to present a reasonably high Fort DC. True, mass hold monster allows a save, but it also doesn't automatically incapacitate every single one of your allies, either.

Not necessarily. You autocrit with a CDG, use power attack (via heroics if you need to), the damage might not be that great, but you are easily forcing a dc60+ fort save which foes will have great difficulty making.

It is basically a save-or-die spell without the save part.
Pitiless_Interfector
10-16-07, 10:41 PM Not necessarily. You autocrit with a CDG, use power attack (via heroics if you need to), the damage might not be that great, but you are easily forcing a dc60+ fort save which foes will have great difficulty making.

It is basically a save-or-die spell without the save part.

Just like power word kill, only not quite as crappy (PWK is generally considered to be crap, isn't it? It's like fighter vs. warblade).

Tack on the 500-XP cost and you're done.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pitiless_Interfector 10-15-07, 10:05 PM	I've always thought that the time stop spell didn't really do justice to the idea of stopping time. After all, other creatures still act in their normal initiative order and whatnot. So, instead, here's an alternative version: Time Stop Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Trickery 9 Components: V Casting Time: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round You speak a word of power, and instantly, silence falls as all movement ceases. This spell speeds up time from your perspective to the point where nothing else seems to be moving. Until the end of your turn, no creature can take any actions whatsoever (including purely mental actions or attacks of opportunity); they are effectively paralyzed, helpless, and completely unaware of their surroundings. Objects do not move unless they are in contact with you; for example, you could pick up a throwing axe and hurl it, but the weapon would halt in midair the moment you let go (it would still continue on its trajectory once time resumes flowing). Gravity, heat, pressure, poison, and similar environmental hazards can still damage you (for example, this spell will not prevent you taking damage from falling into a spiked pit, but if that pit is covered by a pressure-sensitive mechanism, you can walk over the pit safely, since the cover will not move while this spell is in effect). Any spells you cast, attacks you make, or effects you cause (such as the triggering of the aforementioned pressure-sensitive pit trap) do not take effect until the beginning of your next turn. Time resumes flowing at the beginning of your next turn; essentially, casting this spell allows you to take two full turns in a row. There; considerably more complex, but truer to fantasy and science-fiction examples of time-stopping (plus it's just cooler). So, anyone have any thoughts? See any issues with this version? Actually have a good reason for preferring the current one? Anything period? Basically, you can target foes with spells and attacks and whatnot, but they don't start to take effect until time starts flowing again. Basically, you roll your attack or cast your spell (applying feats and magic item powers as warranted) while time is stopped, but the targets don't calculate their AC or their saving throw bonus until time starts flowing again. Here's an example: Hennet, surrounded by four water monoliths with the Mage Slayer feat, casts time stop (on initiative count 12) as a swift action (which doesn't provoke AoOs from the monoliths). He then casts meteor swarm. He is currently under the effects of moment of prescience, and could choose to discharge it to gain a bonus on one of the ranged touch attacks, but decides not to. He targets each monolith with a meteor, and gets attack results of 25, 18, 19, and 27. The meteors, however, simply hang in space, barely beyond his fingertips. Hennet moves 60 feet to the left (with the aid of expeditious retreat), and since the monoliths are frozen in time, they cannot attack him for leaving their threatened area. His turn now completed, the round goes by with all creatures and effects frozen in time (this does not count against the durations of any ongoing spells or other abilities). Upon reaching initiative count 12, time resumes flowing. The meteors begin their deadly flight, and the monoliths try to duck out of the way (getting their full Dexterity bonus to their touch AC), but with touch ACs of only 12, they are all successfully hit. They all take 4d6 bludgeoning damage and 6d6 fire damage with no save, and must each make 3 DC 30 Reflex saves for half damage from the other three meteors. They receive their full Dexterity bonus to their Reflex saves, but it still is not enough. The monoliths have all taken 28d6 points of damage, and Hennet gets another full turn before they can act!
ArcTan 10-16-07, 01:38 AM	Didn't they change time stop from 3.0 to 3.5 to specifically not allow you to target creatures with attacks and Instantaneous spells during time stop, because it was broken? Yes, 9th-level spells should be powerful, but they shouldn't be "I won Initiative, so ha ha, I win period. Nothing you can do about it."
goawayugh 10-16-07, 09:07 AM	Didn't they change time stop from 3.0 to 3.5 to specifically not allow you to target creatures with attacks and Instantaneous spells during time stop, because it was broken? Yes, 9th-level spells should be powerful, but they shouldn't be "I won Initiative, so ha ha, I win period. Nothing you can do about it." Agreed.
Nadaka 10-16-07, 09:10 AM	Step 1: cast time stop and walk over to your foe while drawing your scythe Step 2: Coup De Grace. The save DC for the Time stop save or die is much higher than most other 9th level spells and it is not affected by spell resistance.
Pitiless_Interfector 10-16-07, 08:06 PM	Step 1: cast time stop and walk over to your foe while drawing your scythe Step 2: Coup De Grace. The save DC for the Time stop save or die is much higher than most other 9th level spells and it is not affected by spell resistance. Yeah, but arcanists suck at dealing damage in melee, so mass hold monster lets your party rogue and party fighter (hell, party cleric, even) walk over and deal enough damage to present a reasonably high Fort DC. True, mass hold monster allows a save, but it also doesn't automatically incapacitate every single one of your allies, either. Didn't they change time stop from 3.0 to 3.5 to specifically not allow you to target creatures with attacks and Instantaneous spells during time stop, because it was broken? Yes, 9th-level spells should be powerful, but they shouldn't be "I won Initiative, so ha ha, I win period. Nothing you can do about it." Like I said before, the only real effect of this spell is giving you an extra turn. I repeat, an extra turn, not turns. And you have to wait to cast it until your turn actually comes around, unlike with greater celerity. And if you're still not satisfied, would a 500-point XP cost change your mind?
runestar 10-16-07, 09:29 PM	Yeah, but arcanists suck at dealing damage in melee, so mass hold monster lets your party rogue and party fighter (hell, party cleric, even) walk over and deal enough damage to present a reasonably high Fort DC. True, mass hold monster allows a save, but it also doesn't automatically incapacitate every single one of your allies, either. Not necessarily. You autocrit with a CDG, use power attack (via heroics if you need to), the damage might not be that great, but you are easily forcing a dc60+ fort save which foes will have great difficulty making. It is basically a save-or-die spell without the save part.
Pitiless_Interfector 10-16-07, 10:41 PM	Not necessarily. You autocrit with a CDG, use power attack (via heroics if you need to), the damage might not be that great, but you are easily forcing a dc60+ fort save which foes will have great difficulty making. It is basically a save-or-die spell without the save part. Just like power word kill, only not quite as crappy (PWK is generally considered to be crap, isn't it? It's like fighter vs. warblade). Tack on the 500-XP cost and you're done.