Analysis of the Scarab of Protection cost [Archive] - Wizards Community

Analysis of the Scarab of Protection cost [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
OomaEnDalkirith
11-19-03, 02:00 PM This item has been present in both 3.0 and 3.5 edition (DMG), with the same price of 38000 gp, and even more enhanced statistics in 3.5.

What I can't figure out is how to break up the costs of individual effects of the item. The SR 20 constant effect in itself is absurd for mere 38K were it not for the fact that the item crumbles into dust when it's 12 charges (of Death Ward) are depleted.

I'd like to see what you people think on pricing the effect of 12 charges of Death Ward as a single ability of an item. Or a cost per charge, for that matter (if some system can be devised).

Thanx...
Wizard
11-19-03, 03:00 PM 12 charges of death ward might be calculated thus:
12\50 *4*7*750=5040 gp, or 420 gp/charge.

Multiply this by 150%, b\c the SR 20 is definitely the superior power, and this is a case of two disparate powers on one slot-using item. 7560 gp is the result.
38000-7560=30440 for the SR, compared with a guideline of 80000 from the table in the DMG. We've got a problem---but wait! Remember the final flaw---that the SR 20 power is gone when the [i]death ward[/]i power is gone. I'd only give a 50% price break for that, but a 62% ((80000-30440)/80000) isn't that bad.
OomaEnDalkirith
11-20-03, 11:30 AM Thanks, Wizard! You see, what was puzzling was that charges stored in the Scarab aren't actually charges of Death Ward, and differ in two ways: normal charges would have a duration of 10 min/lev (advantage) and normal charges would have to be activated as a standard action (drawback). I was thinking in the same way as you but wasn't sure how to balance these differences and say what is worth more.

But, since you seem so sure in pricing these beasties, perhaps you'd try a harder one (IMO) ... Ring of Nine Lives. What would you price one charge of reactive Heal (like the one in the ring), or the automatic save success (from Limited Wish I suppose) as single abilities of items?

Reactive Heal seems awfully cheap for 990 gp (6*11*750/50) or even 1320 (6*11*1000/50 as in 3.5 ed), since it is considerably more powerful than an ordinary charge of Heal.
Darklion
11-20-03, 12:46 PM since it is considerably more powerful than an ordinary charge of Heal.I don't know about that. It's definitely a better deal than a normal heal, in that it saves you from near-certain death on its own, but on the other hand (no pun intended) you can't trigger it under any other conditions. You have to be on the verge of death for the thing to fire, otherwise it's basically a flashy metal trinket taking up space on your finger.

Personally speaking, I think the fact that use of the item is automatic is balanced by the fact that the item is purely automatic and cannot be consciously or manually triggered.
Wizard
11-20-03, 02:28 PM I couldn't find the RoNL in the SRD. Is it in the DMG? I'm at school right now, w\o access to the books. If you can put up the full stats for it, I could probably do it from that, but it might violate copyright laws if it's not OGL.
ikkonoishi
11-20-03, 02:43 PM Originally posted by Wizard
I couldn't find the RoNL in the SRD. Is it in the DMG? I'm at school right now, w\o access to the books. If you can put up the full stats for it, I could probably do it from that, but it might violate copyright laws if it's not OGL.
Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22ring+of+nine+lives%22)
The first link is to a pdf document that has it in it.
kreynolds
11-20-03, 02:52 PM Originally posted by ikkonoishi
Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22ring+of+nine+lives%22)
The first link is to a pdf document that has it in it.

Wrong ring. The one OomaEnDalkirith refers to is in MaoF.
Wizard
11-20-03, 03:43 PM No access to Adobe. Sorry.
ikkonoishi
11-20-03, 03:48 PM Originally posted by kreynolds
Wrong ring. The one OomaEnDalkirith refers to is in MaoF.
Hmm... indeed.
Well all that ring is lacking is the fact that the wearer is automatically returned to 0hp when put to less than 0 hp which also uses up 1 charge.

Same ring probally an earlier version...
kreynolds
11-20-03, 04:16 PM Originally posted by ikkonoishi
Well all that ring is lacking is the fact that the wearer is automatically returned to 0hp when put to less than 0 hp which also uses up 1 charge.

Seriously...they're not the same ring. It also lacks the ability to expend a charge to treat a failed saving throw as a success, not to mention that it only protects against death effects, while the ring in MaoF functions even if you get hit really, really hard with a hammer (i.e. _any_ time you drop to 0 or below).

Originally posted by ikkonoishi
...probally an earlier version...

Possibly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OomaEnDalkirith 11-19-03, 02:00 PM	This item has been present in both 3.0 and 3.5 edition (DMG), with the same price of 38000 gp, and even more enhanced statistics in 3.5. What I can't figure out is how to break up the costs of individual effects of the item. The SR 20 constant effect in itself is absurd for mere 38K were it not for the fact that the item crumbles into dust when it's 12 charges (of Death Ward) are depleted. I'd like to see what you people think on pricing the effect of 12 charges of Death Ward as a single ability of an item. Or a cost per charge, for that matter (if some system can be devised). Thanx...
Wizard 11-19-03, 03:00 PM	12 charges of death ward might be calculated thus: 12\50 47*750=5040 gp, or 420 gp/charge. Multiply this by 150%, b\c the SR 20 is definitely the superior power, and this is a case of two disparate powers on one slot-using item. 7560 gp is the result. 38000-7560=30440 for the SR, compared with a guideline of 80000 from the table in the DMG. We've got a problem---but wait! Remember the final flaw---that the SR 20 power is gone when the [i]death ward[/]i power is gone. I'd only give a 50% price break for that, but a 62% ((80000-30440)/80000) isn't that bad.
OomaEnDalkirith 11-20-03, 11:30 AM	Thanks, Wizard! You see, what was puzzling was that charges stored in the Scarab aren't actually charges of Death Ward, and differ in two ways: normal charges would have a duration of 10 min/lev (advantage) and normal charges would have to be activated as a standard action (drawback). I was thinking in the same way as you but wasn't sure how to balance these differences and say what is worth more. But, since you seem so sure in pricing these beasties, perhaps you'd try a harder one (IMO) ... Ring of Nine Lives. What would you price one charge of reactive Heal (like the one in the ring), or the automatic save success (from Limited Wish I suppose) as single abilities of items? Reactive Heal seems awfully cheap for 990 gp (611750/50) or even 1320 (6111000/50 as in 3.5 ed), since it is considerably more powerful than an ordinary charge of Heal.
Darklion 11-20-03, 12:46 PM	since it is considerably more powerful than an ordinary charge of Heal.I don't know about that. It's definitely a better deal than a normal heal, in that it saves you from near-certain death on its own, but on the other hand (no pun intended) you can't trigger it under any other conditions. You have to be on the verge of death for the thing to fire, otherwise it's basically a flashy metal trinket taking up space on your finger. Personally speaking, I think the fact that use of the item is automatic is balanced by the fact that the item is purely automatic and cannot be consciously or manually triggered.
Wizard 11-20-03, 02:28 PM	I couldn't find the RoNL in the SRD. Is it in the DMG? I'm at school right now, w\o access to the books. If you can put up the full stats for it, I could probably do it from that, but it might violate copyright laws if it's not OGL.
ikkonoishi 11-20-03, 02:43 PM	Originally posted by Wizard I couldn't find the RoNL in the SRD. Is it in the DMG? I'm at school right now, w\o access to the books. If you can put up the full stats for it, I could probably do it from that, but it might violate copyright laws if it's not OGL. Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22ring+of+nine+lives%22) The first link is to a pdf document that has it in it.
kreynolds 11-20-03, 02:52 PM	Originally posted by ikkonoishi Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22ring+of+nine+lives%22) The first link is to a pdf document that has it in it. Wrong ring. The one OomaEnDalkirith refers to is in MaoF.
Wizard 11-20-03, 03:43 PM	No access to Adobe. Sorry.
ikkonoishi 11-20-03, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by kreynolds Wrong ring. The one OomaEnDalkirith refers to is in MaoF. Hmm... indeed. Well all that ring is lacking is the fact that the wearer is automatically returned to 0hp when put to less than 0 hp which also uses up 1 charge. Same ring probally an earlier version...
kreynolds 11-20-03, 04:16 PM	Originally posted by ikkonoishi Well all that ring is lacking is the fact that the wearer is automatically returned to 0hp when put to less than 0 hp which also uses up 1 charge. Seriously...they're not the same ring. It also lacks the ability to expend a charge to treat a failed saving throw as a success, not to mention that it only protects against death effects, while the ring in MaoF functions even if you get hit really, really hard with a hammer (i.e. _any_ time you drop to 0 or below). Originally posted by ikkonoishi ...probally an earlier version... Possibly.