Analyze Dweomer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Analyze Dweomer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
primemover003
04-15-05, 04:17 PM Anticipating a rematch between my BBEG cleric of cyric and the PC's I'm wondering how Analyze Dweomer is going to interact with Illusions (specifically the spells from the Trickery or Illusion Domains).

If a Persistant Image of my cleric is running when the PC wizard looks at him I'm guessing that because it's neither a "creature" nor "Object", but a spell effect that the Wiz can't use Analyze Dweomer to identify it as an Illusion. Only on the 3rd round of a Detect Magic would said Wiz be likely to tell it's an illusion, right?

The same question could be asked about Screen and Mislead. Does Analyze Dweomer ID them as illusions or are they not subject to that spell because they are neither Creatures nor Objects???
Heptameron
04-15-05, 04:49 PM I think I would rule that it would detect the spell creating the illusion. If you did rule that it would not function because an illusion is neither a creature nor an object, the mere fact that analyze dweomer didn't work would probably clue the caster in.
primemover003
04-15-05, 05:11 PM I think I would rule that it would detect the spell creating the illusion. If you did rule that it would not function because an illusion is neither a creature nor an object, the mere fact that analyze dweomer didn't work would probably clue the caster in.
Which for the purposes of the encounter and adventure as a whole isn't a bad thing.

Every round the wizard is detecting or analyzing is one less he's chuck out Acid Spheres and Reciprocal Gyres.

Basically the first time around the cleric was buffed for melee with some good attack spells. This time I want to turn the tables and use trickery because he's ready for a melee monster.
solbergb
04-15-05, 06:57 PM Actually arcane sight and analyze dewomer automatically will reveal the illusion to be false.

The former by saying "that thing there is school illusion and magic" and at minimum should give a will save to disbelieve at +4, and the latter because

"Each round, you may examine a single creature or object that you can see as a free action....In the case of an object or creature with active spells cast upon it, you learn each spell, its effect, and its caster level."

If you examine the illusion as a free action, you will learn that it is an illusion (if the DM is spirit-of-the-rules type) or the spell will fail (indicating it isn't a critter or object if the DM is a letter-of-the-rules type) again at minimum giving you the +4 disbelieve check.

No sudden, immediate, standard, move or full round actions required. Now this kind of chicanery may mean he is wasting his analysis on decoys rather than getting the skinny on you, but it really isn't going to waste much time.

True seeing, of course, is the best response to this kind of behavior. But the other two "combat divinations" aren't bad.
primemover003
04-15-05, 07:53 PM Fortunately the Wizard only has Detect Magic as a permanant spell and not Arcane Sight.

However the Cleric is known to use Nondetection habitually, so if the Analyze Dweomer reveals nothing it could very well be that his caster level check wasn't high enough...

I don't think a free standing Illusion should count as a "creature" or an "object" for the purposes of this spell. The spirit of AD is to identify magic items and catalogue the various Buffs of an enemy. Arcane sight or True Seeing are meant to see through Illusions.

But I would consider a round used analyzing to constitute "Interaction" with the Illusion... but that spell wouldn't give the +4 bonus as it can't read the Illusion for what it is.
smrtgmp
04-15-05, 08:44 PM Dont forget Analyze Dweomer only functions at short range. Detect Magic only works out to 60ft. If you start the illusion farther away than that, they might waste an opening volley of spells/attacks before they even have a chance to realize whats going on.
primemover003
04-15-05, 10:21 PM Oh yeah...

55' is even shorter than the 60' of Detect magic... Nice smrtgmp, I almost overlooked the range.

It's ok he can only look at 12 things total. I'm gonna pull out my entire Trickery Domain on him. That and an Undercleric will have the Illusion domain.
smrtgmp
04-15-05, 10:24 PM If the god in question has the trickery and illusion domains, chances are he would attract illusionists as followers as well. A well made illusionist side-kick can wreak havoc with the PCs.

I recomend a combination of the gnome illusionist racial substitution levels (from RoS), the Shadowcrafter PrC (Underdark) and Shadowcraft Mage PrC (also RoS).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
primemover003 04-15-05, 04:17 PM	Anticipating a rematch between my BBEG cleric of cyric and the PC's I'm wondering how Analyze Dweomer is going to interact with Illusions (specifically the spells from the Trickery or Illusion Domains). If a Persistant Image of my cleric is running when the PC wizard looks at him I'm guessing that because it's neither a "creature" nor "Object", but a spell effect that the Wiz can't use Analyze Dweomer to identify it as an Illusion. Only on the 3rd round of a Detect Magic would said Wiz be likely to tell it's an illusion, right? The same question could be asked about Screen and Mislead. Does Analyze Dweomer ID them as illusions or are they not subject to that spell because they are neither Creatures nor Objects???
Heptameron 04-15-05, 04:49 PM	I think I would rule that it would detect the spell creating the illusion. If you did rule that it would not function because an illusion is neither a creature nor an object, the mere fact that analyze dweomer didn't work would probably clue the caster in.
primemover003 04-15-05, 05:11 PM	I think I would rule that it would detect the spell creating the illusion. If you did rule that it would not function because an illusion is neither a creature nor an object, the mere fact that analyze dweomer didn't work would probably clue the caster in. Which for the purposes of the encounter and adventure as a whole isn't a bad thing. Every round the wizard is detecting or analyzing is one less he's chuck out Acid Spheres and Reciprocal Gyres. Basically the first time around the cleric was buffed for melee with some good attack spells. This time I want to turn the tables and use trickery because he's ready for a melee monster.
solbergb 04-15-05, 06:57 PM	Actually arcane sight and analyze dewomer automatically will reveal the illusion to be false. The former by saying "that thing there is school illusion and magic" and at minimum should give a will save to disbelieve at +4, and the latter because "Each round, you may examine a single creature or object that you can see as a free action....In the case of an object or creature with active spells cast upon it, you learn each spell, its effect, and its caster level." If you examine the illusion as a free action, you will learn that it is an illusion (if the DM is spirit-of-the-rules type) or the spell will fail (indicating it isn't a critter or object if the DM is a letter-of-the-rules type) again at minimum giving you the +4 disbelieve check. No sudden, immediate, standard, move or full round actions required. Now this kind of chicanery may mean he is wasting his analysis on decoys rather than getting the skinny on you, but it really isn't going to waste much time. True seeing, of course, is the best response to this kind of behavior. But the other two "combat divinations" aren't bad.
primemover003 04-15-05, 07:53 PM	Fortunately the Wizard only has Detect Magic as a permanant spell and not Arcane Sight. However the Cleric is known to use Nondetection habitually, so if the Analyze Dweomer reveals nothing it could very well be that his caster level check wasn't high enough... I don't think a free standing Illusion should count as a "creature" or an "object" for the purposes of this spell. The spirit of AD is to identify magic items and catalogue the various Buffs of an enemy. Arcane sight or True Seeing are meant to see through Illusions. But I would consider a round used analyzing to constitute "Interaction" with the Illusion... but that spell wouldn't give the +4 bonus as it can't read the Illusion for what it is.
smrtgmp 04-15-05, 08:44 PM	Dont forget Analyze Dweomer only functions at short range. Detect Magic only works out to 60ft. If you start the illusion farther away than that, they might waste an opening volley of spells/attacks before they even have a chance to realize whats going on.
primemover003 04-15-05, 10:21 PM	Oh yeah... 55' is even shorter than the 60' of Detect magic... Nice smrtgmp, I almost overlooked the range. It's ok he can only look at 12 things total. I'm gonna pull out my entire Trickery Domain on him. That and an Undercleric will have the Illusion domain.
smrtgmp 04-15-05, 10:24 PM	If the god in question has the trickery and illusion domains, chances are he would attract illusionists as followers as well. A well made illusionist side-kick can wreak havoc with the PCs. I recomend a combination of the gnome illusionist racial substitution levels (from RoS), the Shadowcrafter PrC (Underdark) and Shadowcraft Mage PrC (also RoS).