Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StonedOne 07-04-04, 05:24 PM	Which basic item would you take as an Ancestral Relic (feat from BoED), and how would you enchant it, if you were a druid? I thought about an wild armor or a necklace of natural weapons, but I'm unsure about the enchantments on them (exept the "wild" enchantment for the armor), or are there better items as ancestral relics for druids? HELP?
Seeker95 07-04-04, 09:15 PM	Go with a combat staff of your favorite spells. Druids + Cudgels = Archetype.
StonedOne 07-05-04, 05:09 AM	Hmm.., I'm planning to spend a lot of time wildshaped, so that's not exately what I'm searhing for! (The druid is gonna be a ng Druid10/Lion of Tsalid10) I should have mentioned that before, sorry.
StonedOne 07-05-04, 05:20 AM	Yeah, my first double post!
Seeker95 07-05-04, 08:12 AM	Hmmm... then perhaps a collar. Definitely a collar. Ancestral to a long line of Lions of Tsalid. Give it a natural armor bonus of whatever and tongues and comprehend languages. You can speak in wild shape, and you can back up your words with actions.
StonedOne 07-05-04, 11:06 AM	Thanks, for your reply, but I'm was searching for an item worth 380k (Lev20 Ancestral Relic). For example started with a Necklace of natural weapons from Savage Species for two natural weapons. -Keen (+1) -Flaming(+2) -Vicious(+3) -Holy (+5) that would be 100k, 280k left for a lot of stuff. I thought about a bonus to Wisdom, but I don't know how much GP it will cost to enchant the Keen Flaming Vicious Holy Necklace of Natural Weapons with a +2 (+4, +6, +8) Wis-bonus. Second thing I thought about an armor: Duskwoodbreastplate (Magic of Fearun) -Wild -Glammered -Fortification (light, moderate, heavy) -another +2 enchantment -Fire Resitance (norm, impr, greater) Just 166k in the end, so it's a long way to 380k too! Has someone an idea, how to further enchant these items to a total GP value of 380k, and how do I calculate the GP for enchanting the Necklace with a boni to Wisdom?
Seeker95 07-05-04, 11:40 AM	Then you probably want to head over to the Epic boards. They have a more Epic-focused group of frequenters.
StonedOne 07-05-04, 01:18 PM	Epic, why epic? +10 Weapons/Armor are not epic. Everything beyond that is epic, and Ancestral Relic is not an epic feat, so again why epic?
Edward 07-05-04, 06:43 PM	+10 equivalent armour is 100,000 if you want to have 2 different abilities you calculate the cost of each ability individually and increase the price of all abilities other than the most expensive by 50%. Eg your necklace of natural weapons as you described is 100k. Adding a +6 (heist non epic bonus to a stat) wiz bonus would cost an additional 6*6*1000*1.5=54000gp. If you are going to be fighting in wild shape a lot +6 str and con would be useful as would a deflection bonus to AC. The str and con boosts would be non affinity so more expensive but the deflection bonus is in the correct place. 6*6*1000*2=72000 each for +6 str and con 5*5*2000*1.5 = 75000 for the +5 deflection bonus Total price = 373KGP. The item is wearable and thus will provide all bonuses in humanoid and most animal forms Edward
Seeker95 07-05-04, 07:48 PM	Originally posted by StonedOne Epic, why epic?Because the total cost of the item is over 200K. If you're trying to get to 380K, you're in epic territory.
StonedOne 07-07-04, 04:41 AM	@Seeker95 Hmmm.... okay items above 200k are Epic, but because the item is worth above 200k because of the non-epic Ancestral Relic feat, I don't think that it belongs in the Epic Boards... but I think that doesn't matter! Thanks anyway! @Edward Hmm.... nice itembuild you made there, very nice, thanks, but I don't understand why only in MOST animal forms? The idea with +6 to Str and Con is very good, but wouldn't it be better/stylish that the necklace grants these bonuses (deflection bonus, too) only in wildshaped form, this would also fit much better to the concept of a necklace of natural weaopons. (Mostly I will be fighting only in shaped form anyway) I don't know if the GP value can be calculated, if the item works only in shaped form, but I hope so... Edward :D
Edward 07-07-04, 11:53 AM	You might get a 10% discount on those functions if they are only usable in wild shape (for requiring a class ability). I tend to discourage such discounts however as they reduce the price you spend without giving up significant utility. There are a few animals that may have some difficulty with a collar. The first that comes to mind is a snake where it would likely slip off. Actually that is all I can think of at this time (very tired) It is true that this is an epic item and if it was not an ancestral relic it would need an epic item crafter but it isn’t high enough to get any of the epic bonuses (+8 to stat or +6 to attack) so it is non epic abilities that need to be considered. Yes it would fit as well on the epic board but we can be far more helpful than telling StonedOne to shove off. Are you starting at level 20 or did you want to know wheat the item was to become first. If you want I can probably break it down into a stage-by-stage progression for you. Edward
StonedOne 07-08-04, 04:50 AM	Well if you could this would be helpful, too, because actually we are starting our campaigne,so BREAK IT DOWN, jo! :D I think you are right about the 10% discount, but implanting that feature anyway would be stylish, so lets implant it without the discount! But first two questions: 1. Why the "non affinity" statboosts? 2. What do you think about adding an ability similar to the Wild Shape Amulet (Magic of Fearun P.167, adds 4 Levels of wildshape)? I think adding two levels of wildshape is enough, so this would be 20k. (We have to lower one of the other abilities for that, I think)
Edward 07-09-04, 06:16 AM	In the DMG on page 288 it tells you witch body slot different types of bonuses are supposed to be applied to. If you put them elsewhere you need to pay 50% extra. I just looked in savage speces at the necklace of natural weapons and I am not shore you got the price for that correct. By my estimation a +10 equivalent necklace that affects 2 natural weapons would be worth 401200gp on its own. Pleas review the item yourself and see what you come up with. Edward
StonedOne 07-09-04, 11:25 AM	Hm... actually a keen, flaming, vicious, holy weapon is +5, and not +10, a +5 weapon is worth 50k, so a necklace of natural weapons affecting 2 nat. weapons would be around 100k, or am I wrong here? In my first post I added the enchantments... -Keen (+1) -Flaming(+2) -Vicious(+3) -Holy (+5) ... sorry if I confused you. (btw: 1+2+3+5=11 :D ) Or where did you get that +10 from?
Edward 07-09-04, 07:12 PM	I was very tired and went 1+1+2+3+5=10 The extra +1 was for an enhancement bonus witch I still think it would need just like any other weapon enhancement. Do you agree with that. I need more sleep before I work out a progression for you. I just got off night shift again. Answer that question an I should be able to work something out for you when I get up. Edward
Edward 07-10-04, 03:10 AM	You can determine the total price of your item by adding together those of these lists that apply. The lists do assume that your necklace of natural weapons will always be the most expensive part. Laying it out n this way allows you to chose order of enhancements during the game. Also you forgot to include the 600gp starting point. That however will not put you over the limit necklace of natural weapons +1 one weapon 2600 +1 2 weapons 5200 +2 2 weapons 17200 +3 2 weapons 37200 +4 2 weapons 65200 +5 2 weapons 101200 +6 2 weapons 145200 (you did not intend to use) wiz boost +2 = 6000 +4 = 24000 +6 = 54000 str boost +2 = 8000 +4 = 32000 +6 = 72000 con boost +2 = 8000 +4 = 32000 +6 = 72000 deflection to AC +1 = 3000 +2 = 12000 +3 = 27000 +4 = 48000 +5 = 75000 To work out the items value at any time add together the price for each ability. Second ability and non affinity penalties have already been applied. Possible break down in stages +1 one weapon = 2600 +1 one weapon, +1 deflection to AC = 5600 +1 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC = 8200 +1 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC, +2 wiz = 14200 +2 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC, +2 wiz = 26200 +2 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con = 34200 +2 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con, +2 str = 42200 +2 both weapon, +2 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con, +2 str = 51200 +3 both weapon, +2 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con, +2 str = 71200 +3 both weapon, +3 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con, +2 str = 86200 +3 both weapon, +3 deflection to AC, +4 wiz, +4 con, +2 str = 128200 +3 both weapon, +3 deflection to AC, +4 wiz, +4 con, +4 str = 152200 +4 both weapon, +3 deflection to AC, +4 wiz, +4 con, +4 str = 180200 +4 both weapon, +4 deflection to AC, +4 wiz, +4 con, +4 str = 201200 +5 both weapon, +4 deflection to AC, +4 wiz, +4 con, +4 str = 237200 +5 both weapon, +5 deflection to AC, +4 wiz, +4 con, +4 str = 264200 +5 both weapon, +5 deflection to AC, +6 wiz, +4 con, +4 str = 294200 +5 both weapon, +5 deflection to AC, +6 wiz, +6 con, +4 str = 334200 +5 both weapon, +5 deflection to AC, +6 wiz, +6 con, +6 str = 374200 But this may not be what you want subject to what magic items you find along the way Edward
StonedOne 07-10-04, 05:08 AM	Thank you very much, but I think I will replace the + 6 wizboost (wiz = wisdom?, I hope) with the ability of an Wild Shape Amulet, so let me guess this will be 15k (10k base + 5k second ability + 0k because the bodyslot fits) per wildshapelevel, so this would be 30k for two levels, what leaves place for a +4 wiz bonus. So to finish this Lev4 = 2,7k +1 one weapon = 2600 Lev5 = 4,5k Lev6 = 6,5k +1 one weapon, +1 deflection to AC = 5600 Lev7 = 9,5k +1 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC = 8200 Lev8 = 13,5k Lev9 = 18,0k +1 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC, +2 wiz = 14200 Lev10 = 24,5k Lev11 = 33k +2 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC, +2 wiz = 26200 Lev12 = 44k +2 both weapon, +1 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con, +2 str = 42200 Lev13 = 55k +2 both weapon, +2 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con, +2 str = 51200 Lev14 = 75k +3 both weapon, +2 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con, +2 str = 71200 Lev15 = 100k +3 both weapon, +3 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +2 con, +2 str = 86200 Lev16 = 130k +3 both weapon, +3 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +1 wildshapelevel, +4 con, +2 str = 125200 Lev17 = 170k +3 both weapon, +3 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +1 wildshapelevel, +4 con, +4 str = 149200 Lev18 = 220k +4 both weapon, +4 deflection to AC, +2 wiz, +1 wildshapelevel, +4 con, +4 str = 193200 Lev19 = 290k +5 both weapon, +5 deflection to AC, +4 wiz, +2 wildshapelevel, +4 con, +4 str = 289200 Lev20 = 380k +5 both weapon, +5 deflection to AC, +4 wiz, +2 wildshapelevel, +6 con, +6 str = 369200 Maybe I'm gonna mix this up a little, to get the weaponenchantments a little earlier, but I think we made a good job here for all shifting druids, thank you once again. And now lets do this for the rest of ALL classes/classcombos/class-PrC-combos! :D :D :D
StonedOne 07-10-04, 06:42 AM	Hmmm..., have you mixed up the price for wiz and con? (Wiz-slot=Head, Con-Slot=Necklace/Amulet)
Edward 07-10-04, 08:14 AM	You are right I did get the price for con boosts wrong. Both con and wisdom default to the necklace slot (the wisdom item being referred to as a periapt) You should use the numbers I gave for wisdom for both con and wisdom. I will not edit the previous post at this time. (need to get to work) Edward
StonedOne 07-11-04, 03:02 PM	I just finished my/our ancestral relic build, and I think it's pretty good, well here it is: Lev4 = 2,7k +1 1 weapon 2600 Lev5 = 4,5k +1 1 weapon 2600 Lev6 = 6,5k +1 2 weapons 5200 Lev7 = 9,5k +1 2 weapons 5200 Lev8 = 13,5k +1 2 weapons 5200, +2 Con = 6000 Lev9 = 18,0k +1 2 weapons 5200, +2 Con = 6000 Lev10 = 24,5k +2 2 weapons 17200, +2 Con = 6000 Lev11 = 33k +2 2 weapons 17200, +2 Con = 6000, +2 Str= 8000 Lev12 = 44k +2 2 weapons 17200, +2 Con = 6000, +2 Str= 8000 Lev13 = 55k +3 2 weapons 37200, +2 Con = 6000, +2 Str= 8000 Lev14 = 75k +3 2 weapons 37200, +4 Con = 24000, +2 Str= 8000 Lev15 = 100k +4 2 weapons 65200, +4 Con = 24000, +2 Str= 8000 97,2k Lev16 = 130k +4 2 weapons 65200, +4 Con = 24000, +2 Str= 8000, +2 Wildshape = 30000 Lev17 = 170k +5 2 weapons 101200, +4 Con = 24000, +2 Str= 8000, +2 Wildshape = 30000 Lev18 = 220k +5 2 weapons 101200, +6 Con = 54000, +4 Str= 32000, +2 Wildshape = 30000 Lev19 = 290k +6 2 weapons 145200, +6 Con = 54000, +4 Str= 32000, +2 Wildshape = 30000 Lev20 = 380k +7 2 weapons 197200, +6 Con = 54000, +6 Str= 72000, +2 Wildshape = 30000, +4 Wiz = 24000 Last thing to do is to decide which enchanments to take, I thougt about - Flaming - Holy - Vicious - Undead Bane - ??? (+2 left) Jup, my char is gonna be a very holy kind of druid, so the enchanments should suit to him, I think..., so any thoughts?