Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Don Svin 10-24-05, 03:40 PM	Yep, you read it right! How's the rules when it comes to polymorph and the swallow whole ability? I've thought about my 7th level transmuter who eventually wants to polymorph into a Remorhaz (MM3.5 p. 214) and therefore wants to use the beasts Swallow Whole (Ex) Special Attack. Is that legal? In my opinion it's an natural ability to 'swallow whole' but when it comes to rules and FOLLOWING the rules, opinions don't matter much. My question is then: can my transmuter polymorph into a Remorhaz and use its swallow whole special attack? Just for the record; I've viewed the RotG-articles about Polymorphing, but I couldn't find anything about this specific topic or anything that could help. Please help.
Barloch 10-24-05, 03:52 PM	You gain all extraordinary special attacks, swallow whole is an extraordinary special attack, therefore you can use it freely, unless theres some rule/errata I don't know about that says you can't. Now changing back with a live creature is a diffrent matter all together but you can use the attack.
mvincent 10-24-05, 04:03 PM	You gain all extraordinary special attacks, swallow whole is an extraordinary special attack, therefore you can use it freely, unless theres some rule/errata I don't know about that says you can't. Now changing back with a live creature is a diffrent matter all together but you can use the attack.I agree (and am similarly curious what would happen if polymorph ran out while a live creature was inside you).
tennesseefats 10-24-05, 04:11 PM	And it gets stranger. Swallow Whole is an extraordinary special attack, which are gained via polymorph, but...the Swallow Whole does 8d6 fire damage as well (as per the description of the attack), because the remorhaz has Heat as an extraordinary special quality, which are NOT gained via polymorph. So, does the Swallow Whole attack apply Heat damage which is in the description, but is technically not gained by the spell (per RAW)? The problem is the way the MMs are written; they don't follow consistent classification of extraordinary and supernatural attacks, qualities and abilities - in short, the entries were never designed to be used as templates for polymorph or any other shapechanging spells, despite the spell's text insinuating that that is the case. It will always be the DMs call on each situation. I think there may or may not be a few...thousand threads on the vagaries of polymorph. ;)
Seeker95 10-24-05, 04:15 PM	After you sort out the extraordinary this and extraordinary that elements... And after you have managed to swallow whole something... And after you change back into your normal form... If it was dead, you feel full, but normal. If it was still alive, it appears in the nearest adjacent open space.
tarkin 10-24-05, 04:17 PM	The basic rules of magic are that things that don't state damage don't do damage. This means there are several ways to interpret that situation. Strict or Loose games will probably pick one of the following, as per DM's ruling. (in order of most likely): 1) Extreme shape shifting, as you return to your normal shape, your body changes goes through a brief inside-out phase and they are pushed out of your body) 2) Extradimensional space. The victim is shunted into a temporary extra dimensional space connected to your stomache. They no longer take any damage (as you personally no longer have the ability to damage them). If they do enough damage to you to escape, they pop out of a hole in your body. 3) All of you shrinks and shape changes back to normal EXCEPT your stomache. Here you are almost certainly going to be Helpless, but they continue to take damage until they either die or escape. Power or Anything Goes Game 4) You shrink down, they shrink with you and continue to take damage, if they escape they pop out of your stomache as usual, regaining their size. 5) You die of internal bleeding as they bust out of your insides.
Lazzmaniandevil 10-24-05, 04:18 PM	Personally, I would rule that the swallowed whole victim would suffer only the bludgeonning damage, since the fire damage comes from a special quality that is not gained with the polymorphing. I would also rule that when the caster change back or when the spell ends, the creature (or its dead body) is immediately spit out. If it's not dead, it can continue fighting.
moet324 10-24-05, 05:42 PM	When I saw this thread the first thing that came to my mind was polymorphing into something larger in something. Seeing as they all have a size requirement what would happen if you grew out of the max size that somethings stomach could hold? As to you swallowing something whole Im completely stumped I would assume that some form of spatial shunting would be involved since magic generaly does that in such scenarios.
Seeker95 10-24-05, 07:55 PM	When I saw this thread the first thing that came to my mind was polymorphing into something larger in something. Seeing as they all have a size requirement what would happen if you grew out of the max size that somethings stomach could hold?Same as when you try to grow larger than the room will hold. You stop. Although you might be able to make a strength check against the stomah of the creature you are fighting!If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it— the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.
moet324 10-24-05, 08:04 PM	Same as when you try to grow larger than the room will hold. You stop. Although you might be able to make a strength check against the stomah of the creature you are fighting! So would the DC be equal to the damage needed to burst in the first place?
Seeker95 10-25-05, 02:10 PM	So would the DC be equal to the damage needed to burst in the first place?To keep things easier and less arbitrary from monster to monster, I would make it an opposed Strength check. Strength to Strength. Roll the dice. Add your modifiers. High roll wins. Damage on the other hand... that could get ugly!
Don Svin 10-27-05, 11:04 AM	Thanks for your answers. Got some ideas for some scenes through your comments. Thanks again!