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!"/$ you [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Da3mon
10-12-05, 03:34 PM I hate wizards.

why? because i always get killed by them im a rogue......cant do anything try and backstab?...wow guess what i had flagobadousritafouin`s detect stealthed gnomes on oh well your dead. i hate you all of you wizards,sorcerers even bards.But i like clerics they are usualy on my side and are nice with me :).

ok now..... lets hear 1million replys saying im dumb stupid and that a rogue sucks.

I`ll still hate you with all my heart.

(yes this is useless, and im still doing it......my char was killed by a sorcerer yesterday :weep: )
Crazy_DM
10-12-05, 04:03 PM So if your character was killed by a sorcerer - why do you hate wizards? :confused:
green_yawgmoth
10-12-05, 04:06 PM You're not dumb for hating whatever class, you're dumb for typing like a damned moron. Honestly, I have but an inkling of what you're trying to convey, and only because I deal with far too many people that spell like you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Ayodrinn the Silver
10-12-05, 04:10 PM I agree with you 100%. Ok, maybe 95%. I like to play a sorcerer every so often, but I usually play fighters. Fireball... you're dead. Why is it that the combat machines can't dish out more dmg than wizards?

P.S. I like rogues too. :D
Puca
10-12-05, 04:13 PM Venting your frustration in this forum is only going to get you flamed.

Start a new thread asking for advice on how to combat wizards/sorcs/other casters when playing a rogue and youll get some positive feedback.
Feroz
10-12-05, 04:17 PM I agree with you 100%. Ok, maybe 95%. I like to play a sorcerer every so often, but I usually play fighters. Fireball... you're dead. Why is it that the combat machines can't dish out more dmg than wizards?

P.S. I like rogues too. :D

Excuse me while I reattach the body parts I laughed off at this.

*Returns in a minute*

If your fighter is getting killed by a single fireball of a spellcaster of the same level, what are you doing? Playing him with 4 Con or something? A regular fireball should deal MAYBE 1/3 of a Fighter's HP tops. A decent con score should bring your HP up high enough that a single fireball should not be a huge worry about it killing you. Once you get high enough to really worry, you should be specializing in preventing your mage allies from getting slaughtered in melee, rather than trying to slaughter enemy mages yourself.
BladeDrinker
10-12-05, 04:18 PM Next time try using Hide and Move Silently. Even see invisibility won't help the sorcerer.
Seeker95
10-12-05, 04:19 PM Why is it that the combat machines can't dish out more dmg than wizards?They can and they do.

Low Level
Round 1: Wizard casts a spell; Fighter swings.
Round 2: Wizard casts a sell; Fighter swings.
Round 3: Wizard is out of spells; Fighter swings.

Mid-Level
Round 1: Wizard casts a spell; Fighter swings; Fighter swings.
Round 2: Wizard casts a sell; Fighter swings; Fighter swings.
...
Round 6: Wizard is out of spells; Fighter swings; Fighter swings.

High Level
Roll Initiative.
Winner Wins.

(High level play is less about force and more about tactics, strategy and research)
NeueRegel
10-12-05, 04:24 PM They can and they do.

Low Level
Round 1: Wizard casts a spell; Fighter swings.
Round 2: Wizard casts a sell; Fighter swings.
Round 3: Wizard is out of spells; Fighter swings.

Mid-Level
Round 1: Wizard casts a spell; Fighter swings; Fighter swings.
Round 2: Wizard casts a sell; Fighter swings; Fighter swings.
...
Round 6: Wizard is out of spells; Fighter swings; Fighter swings.

High Level
Roll Initiative.
Winner Wins.

(High level play is less about force and more about tactics, strategy and research)

For just a couple of seconds, I wished that this were short enough for a sig line...

:)
Feroz
10-12-05, 04:30 PM For just a couple of seconds, I wished that this were short enough for a sig line...

:)

sblock it.
Dragonsblood
10-12-05, 04:34 PM Rogues can cast spells too. UMD

So I guess you hate yourself too? :P
Da3mon
10-12-05, 04:36 PM 1st ok i spell like **** im french sorry i still have the right to write here......
2nd 1st round cast swing etc......no cus he can cast at like 123091723-918 feet away or hey how bout fly or hey make a wall or teleport or some ****
3rd fighter lives couple round yea rogues dont....stealth? meh they always have some gay way of getting me
Da3mon
10-12-05, 04:41 PM Rogues can cast spells too. UMD

So I guess you hate yourself too? :P

well were i play i dont lvl each 6hours of playng im still lvl 2 after a realy good time playing and no i dont cast spells.

and i dont think other players are helping they realy dont like me and i dont even steal anything they juste hate rogues. so they kill me when they can....oh and most mages want power.I got killed mroe then once just for doing something they dont want me to.....AND NO IM NOT THERE TO CARRY YOUR *****....

and im writing here just to have fun and see you juge me....
Barloch
10-12-05, 04:51 PM Talk to your DM and have him set up a dungeon with like a million traps and just absolutely refuse to find/disable them. Then they'll see how useful rogues are. ;)
eutoposWildcat
10-12-05, 06:23 PM im french sorry i still have the right to write here......
Well, I am French too... And in French sentences usually begin with a capital letter and end with a period, and logical elements are separated by commas, so as to make the sentence more easily readable and understandable... just like in English. So being French does not mean anything. Just understand that, in French AND in English, lazy people who do not care about properly organizing and typing their messages give headaches to their readers. ;)

C'est simplement une question de respect pour les autres, ce n'est pas du snobisme.
And, please, do not try to convey the idea that French members cannot write readable messages.

To get back to the point, now:
and i dont think other players are helping they realy dont like me and i dont even steal anything they juste hate rogues. so they kill me when they can....oh and most mages want power.I got killed mroe then once just for doing something they dont want me to.....
What about simply choosing another group of persons to play DnD with, or stopping doing things that you know may get your character killed? :rolleyes:
smrtgmp
10-12-05, 07:24 PM and i dont think other players are helping they realy dont like me and i dont even steal anything they juste hate rogues. so they kill me when they can....oh and most mages want power.I got killed mroe then once just for doing something they dont want me to.....AND NO IM NOT THERE TO CARRY YOUR *****....So your group is killing you, and somehow wizards and sorcerers everywhere are responsible? Why dont you blame the bastards who continuously kill your characters instead of the rest of us who enjoy playing spell casters. The people who are responsible for your problems are your fellow players, your DM (who, from what little information you have given us, is likely incompotent), and you. Given how rude you've been in this thread, something tells me they don't like you for a reason. Maybe their continual efforts to kill your character is their (immature) way of telling you to find another group.

But i like clerics they are usualy on my side and are nice with me .You're equating players with a character class. I dont think I need to point out why that's not a great idea. Just because the guy playing the cleric gets along with you doesnt mean divine casters in general will do the same. Just because the guys playing the mages don't get along with you doesnt mean that arcane casters in general will do the same.

On to one other point that really caught my eye:
I agree with you 100%. Ok, maybe 95%. I like to play a sorcerer every so often, but I usually play fighters. Fireball... you're dead. Why is it that the combat machines can't dish out more dmg than wizards?Are you serious? You think wizards can out damage the damage machines? A wizard is good at mopping up hordes of lesser baddies, but when it comes to dealing out insane damage to a single foe, nothing tops a well build physical combat monster. If you dont believe me, check the CO boards. Other than the almighty Pun-Pun, the damage records are all held by melee builds.

There are several different routes to travel when building a basher. For an example, I'll use one that is easy to pull of using core-only options: the mounted charger.

With the spirited charge feat, you deal triple damage with a lance on a charge. That means x5 on a crit. In the Eberron game I'm running, one of the primary melee guys was a dino-riding halfling fighter/paladin with a modified str of 18 (rolled a 17, lowered to 15 by racial penalty, raised to 16 at 4th level, +2 guantlets of ogre power).

At 6th level, when wielding his +1 lance two handed, it did 1d6+7 points of damage. On a mounted charge (which he always did when possible), thats 3d6+21 (avg 32.5). On a charging crit, thats 5d6+35 (avg 52.2).

Factor in power attack and things start to get crazy. A two handed weapon gives you a 2:1 damage:BAB ratio. With the above character, on a full power attack, its a base of 1d6+19. On a charge thats 3d6+57 (avg 67.5). On a charging crit thats 5d6+95 (avg 112.5). At 6th level. Trow in leap attack (which increases power attack output by 100%, as per the eratta), and things get retarded.

Meanwhile, a 6th level wizard's fireball is doing an average of 21 points of damage, albeit over an area. The numbers don't lie. While spellcasters are good at mopping up the minions, they cant compete with brawlers in the single target, direct damage department (otherwise known as the DDD). Furthermore, enemy hitpoint totals go up much faster than a wizard's ability to deal damage. This is why DD spells start to lose their edge at mid-high levels.

In addition, damaging spells are less than optimal for another simple reason. Regardless of an enemy's current hitpoint total, be it 500 or 5, they are just as dangerous when their turn comes around. There are no penalties associated with low hp totals. I cant even count the nuber of times a group I've been in has whittled an enemy's hp total down only to have it be healed to near full by a well timed curitive spell, at which point all your hard work is for nothing. Now, had the party mage focused his spells on things like ray of enfeeblement, enervation, slow, waves of exhaustion, etc, the enemy would still be suffering from the debilitating effects of said spells after it is healed of its hp damage, which means it would still easier to deal with.

Finally, every other class in the game is built around doing damage. In fact, in your average combat, thats about all they can do. As such, I am of the opinion that wizards (and the like) should focus their actions on doing things others are incapable of, such as battlefield control, mass buffing of allies, debuffing of enemies, and the various utility spells. When they want to take out an enemy directly, save-or-dies are far more effective than DD spells.

Obviously, YMMV.
Jagyr Ebonwood
10-12-05, 07:38 PM It sounds to me like you have several problems.
1. Your blatant disregard for grammar.
2. You're playing with a crappy group.
3. You are a self confessed troll.

Shoo, shoo.
Oh, and don't use the word "gay" in a derogatory fashion. I'm part of the Gay Mafia. You do stuff like that, I break into your house and break the legs of your coffee table.
Da3mon
10-12-05, 08:01 PM lol
ter tu francais de france ou quebecoi .... si ta de la misere a lire sa c que t francai de francais sinon bin tu peu te dire que je parle aussi bin quebecoi que anglais.....lol

i never said that only the player clerics are nice. over all in most games with all the dms I played with clerics are nice.the same goes with wizards/sorcerer in most games I played we dont go well together (that is the same with the npcs.....) and most of the time the conflict ends with me dead.

lol I would realy love to see you come at my home wth some fags and try to beat all 7 guys that live here :P joking btw :P

oh and im having lot of fun.... you ppl are more funny then most forums I have fun on :)
smrtgmp
10-12-05, 08:05 PM lol I would realy love to see you come at my home wth some fags and try to beat all 7 guys that live here :P joking btw :P
joking or not, thats not cool. :nonono:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Da3mon 10-12-05, 03:34 PM	I hate wizards. why? because i always get killed by them im a rogue......cant do anything try and backstab?...wow guess what i had flagobadousritafouin`s detect stealthed gnomes on oh well your dead. i hate you all of you wizards,sorcerers even bards.But i like clerics they are usualy on my side and are nice with me :). ok now..... lets hear 1million replys saying im dumb stupid and that a rogue sucks. I`ll still hate you with all my heart. (yes this is useless, and im still doing it......my char was killed by a sorcerer yesterday :weep: )
Crazy_DM 10-12-05, 04:03 PM	So if your character was killed by a sorcerer - why do you hate wizards? :confused:
green_yawgmoth 10-12-05, 04:06 PM	You're not dumb for hating whatever class, you're dumb for typing like a damned moron. Honestly, I have but an inkling of what you're trying to convey, and only because I deal with far too many people that spell like you. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Ayodrinn the Silver 10-12-05, 04:10 PM	I agree with you 100%. Ok, maybe 95%. I like to play a sorcerer every so often, but I usually play fighters. Fireball... you're dead. Why is it that the combat machines can't dish out more dmg than wizards? P.S. I like rogues too. :D
Puca 10-12-05, 04:13 PM	Venting your frustration in this forum is only going to get you flamed. Start a new thread asking for advice on how to combat wizards/sorcs/other casters when playing a rogue and youll get some positive feedback.
Feroz 10-12-05, 04:17 PM	I agree with you 100%. Ok, maybe 95%. I like to play a sorcerer every so often, but I usually play fighters. Fireball... you're dead. Why is it that the combat machines can't dish out more dmg than wizards? P.S. I like rogues too. :D Excuse me while I reattach the body parts I laughed off at this. Returns in a minute If your fighter is getting killed by a single fireball of a spellcaster of the same level, what are you doing? Playing him with 4 Con or something? A regular fireball should deal MAYBE 1/3 of a Fighter's HP tops. A decent con score should bring your HP up high enough that a single fireball should not be a huge worry about it killing you. Once you get high enough to really worry, you should be specializing in preventing your mage allies from getting slaughtered in melee, rather than trying to slaughter enemy mages yourself.
BladeDrinker 10-12-05, 04:18 PM	Next time try using Hide and Move Silently. Even see invisibility won't help the sorcerer.
Seeker95 10-12-05, 04:19 PM	Why is it that the combat machines can't dish out more dmg than wizards?They can and they do. Low Level Round 1: Wizard casts a spell; Fighter swings. Round 2: Wizard casts a sell; Fighter swings. Round 3: Wizard is out of spells; Fighter swings. Mid-Level Round 1: Wizard casts a spell; Fighter swings; Fighter swings. Round 2: Wizard casts a sell; Fighter swings; Fighter swings. ... Round 6: Wizard is out of spells; Fighter swings; Fighter swings. High Level Roll Initiative. Winner Wins. (High level play is less about force and more about tactics, strategy and research)
NeueRegel 10-12-05, 04:24 PM	They can and they do. Low Level Round 1: Wizard casts a spell; Fighter swings. Round 2: Wizard casts a sell; Fighter swings. Round 3: Wizard is out of spells; Fighter swings. Mid-Level Round 1: Wizard casts a spell; Fighter swings; Fighter swings. Round 2: Wizard casts a sell; Fighter swings; Fighter swings. ... Round 6: Wizard is out of spells; Fighter swings; Fighter swings. High Level Roll Initiative. Winner Wins. (High level play is less about force and more about tactics, strategy and research) For just a couple of seconds, I wished that this were short enough for a sig line... :)
Feroz 10-12-05, 04:30 PM	For just a couple of seconds, I wished that this were short enough for a sig line... :) sblock it.
Dragonsblood 10-12-05, 04:34 PM	Rogues can cast spells too. UMD So I guess you hate yourself too? :P
Da3mon 10-12-05, 04:36 PM	1st ok i spell like ** im french sorry i still have the right to write here...... 2nd 1st round cast swing etc......no cus he can cast at like 123091723-918 feet away or hey how bout fly or hey make a wall or teleport or some ** 3rd fighter lives couple round yea rogues dont....stealth? meh they always have some gay way of getting me
Da3mon 10-12-05, 04:41 PM	Rogues can cast spells too. UMD So I guess you hate yourself too? :P well were i play i dont lvl each 6hours of playng im still lvl 2 after a realy good time playing and no i dont cast spells. and i dont think other players are helping they realy dont like me and i dont even steal anything they juste hate rogues. so they kill me when they can....oh and most mages want power.I got killed mroe then once just for doing something they dont want me to.....AND NO IM NOT THERE TO CARRY YOUR *****.... and im writing here just to have fun and see you juge me....
Barloch 10-12-05, 04:51 PM	Talk to your DM and have him set up a dungeon with like a million traps and just absolutely refuse to find/disable them. Then they'll see how useful rogues are. ;)
eutoposWildcat 10-12-05, 06:23 PM	im french sorry i still have the right to write here...... Well, I am French too... And in French sentences usually begin with a capital letter and end with a period, and logical elements are separated by commas, so as to make the sentence more easily readable and understandable... just like in English. So being French does not mean anything. Just understand that, in French AND in English, lazy people who do not care about properly organizing and typing their messages give headaches to their readers. ;) C'est simplement une question de respect pour les autres, ce n'est pas du snobisme. And, please, do not try to convey the idea that French members cannot write readable messages. To get back to the point, now: and i dont think other players are helping they realy dont like me and i dont even steal anything they juste hate rogues. so they kill me when they can....oh and most mages want power.I got killed mroe then once just for doing something they dont want me to..... What about simply choosing another group of persons to play DnD with, or stopping doing things that you know may get your character killed? :rolleyes:
smrtgmp 10-12-05, 07:24 PM	and i dont think other players are helping they realy dont like me and i dont even steal anything they juste hate rogues. so they kill me when they can....oh and most mages want power.I got killed mroe then once just for doing something they dont want me to.....AND NO IM NOT THERE TO CARRY YOUR *****....So your group is killing you, and somehow wizards and sorcerers everywhere are responsible? Why dont you blame the bastards who continuously kill your characters instead of the rest of us who enjoy playing spell casters. The people who are responsible for your problems are your fellow players, your DM (who, from what little information you have given us, is likely incompotent), and you. Given how rude you've been in this thread, something tells me they don't like you for a reason. Maybe their continual efforts to kill your character is their (immature) way of telling you to find another group. But i like clerics they are usualy on my side and are nice with me .You're equating players with a character class. I dont think I need to point out why that's not a great idea. Just because the guy playing the cleric gets along with you doesnt mean divine casters in general will do the same. Just because the guys playing the mages don't get along with you doesnt mean that arcane casters in general will do the same. On to one other point that really caught my eye: I agree with you 100%. Ok, maybe 95%. I like to play a sorcerer every so often, but I usually play fighters. Fireball... you're dead. Why is it that the combat machines can't dish out more dmg than wizards?Are you serious? You think wizards can out damage the damage machines? A wizard is good at mopping up hordes of lesser baddies, but when it comes to dealing out insane damage to a single foe, nothing tops a well build physical combat monster. If you dont believe me, check the CO boards. Other than the almighty Pun-Pun, the damage records are all held by melee builds. There are several different routes to travel when building a basher. For an example, I'll use one that is easy to pull of using core-only options: the mounted charger. With the spirited charge feat, you deal triple damage with a lance on a charge. That means x5 on a crit. In the Eberron game I'm running, one of the primary melee guys was a dino-riding halfling fighter/paladin with a modified str of 18 (rolled a 17, lowered to 15 by racial penalty, raised to 16 at 4th level, +2 guantlets of ogre power). At 6th level, when wielding his +1 lance two handed, it did 1d6+7 points of damage. On a mounted charge (which he always did when possible), thats 3d6+21 (avg 32.5). On a charging crit, thats 5d6+35 (avg 52.2). Factor in power attack and things start to get crazy. A two handed weapon gives you a 2:1 damage:BAB ratio. With the above character, on a full power attack, its a base of 1d6+19. On a charge thats 3d6+57 (avg 67.5). On a charging crit thats 5d6+95 (avg 112.5). At 6th level. Trow in leap attack (which increases power attack output by 100%, as per the eratta), and things get retarded. Meanwhile, a 6th level wizard's fireball is doing an average of 21 points of damage, albeit over an area. The numbers don't lie. While spellcasters are good at mopping up the minions, they cant compete with brawlers in the single target, direct damage department (otherwise known as the DDD). Furthermore, enemy hitpoint totals go up much faster than a wizard's ability to deal damage. This is why DD spells start to lose their edge at mid-high levels. In addition, damaging spells are less than optimal for another simple reason. Regardless of an enemy's current hitpoint total, be it 500 or 5, they are just as dangerous when their turn comes around. There are no penalties associated with low hp totals. I cant even count the nuber of times a group I've been in has whittled an enemy's hp total down only to have it be healed to near full by a well timed curitive spell, at which point all your hard work is for nothing. Now, had the party mage focused his spells on things like ray of enfeeblement, enervation, slow, waves of exhaustion, etc, the enemy would still be suffering from the debilitating effects of said spells after it is healed of its hp damage, which means it would still easier to deal with. Finally, every other class in the game is built around doing damage. In fact, in your average combat, thats about all they can do. As such, I am of the opinion that wizards (and the like) should focus their actions on doing things others are incapable of, such as battlefield control, mass buffing of allies, debuffing of enemies, and the various utility spells. When they want to take out an enemy directly, save-or-dies are far more effective than DD spells. Obviously, YMMV.
Jagyr Ebonwood 10-12-05, 07:38 PM	It sounds to me like you have several problems. 1. Your blatant disregard for grammar. 2. You're playing with a crappy group. 3. You are a self confessed troll. Shoo, shoo. Oh, and don't use the word "gay" in a derogatory fashion. I'm part of the Gay Mafia. You do stuff like that, I break into your house and break the legs of your coffee table.
Da3mon 10-12-05, 08:01 PM	lol ter tu francais de france ou quebecoi .... si ta de la misere a lire sa c que t francai de francais sinon bin tu peu te dire que je parle aussi bin quebecoi que anglais.....lol i never said that only the player clerics are nice. over all in most games with all the dms I played with clerics are nice.the same goes with wizards/sorcerer in most games I played we dont go well together (that is the same with the npcs.....) and most of the time the conflict ends with me dead. lol I would realy love to see you come at my home wth some fags and try to beat all 7 guys that live here :P joking btw :P oh and im having lot of fun.... you ppl are more funny then most forums I have fun on :)
smrtgmp 10-12-05, 08:05 PM	lol I would realy love to see you come at my home wth some fags and try to beat all 7 guys that live here :P joking btw :P joking or not, thats not cool. :nonono: