Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MinusInnocence 07-15-05, 01:53 AM	This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally. . . The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. This still leaves a lot of wiggle-room. Could the caster tell his charmed companion to stand on a chair and put a noose around his neck? What if he didn't refer to it as a noose specifically? Even the word carries a negative connotation of peril. Of course, the charmed subject wouldn't willingly jump up and kick the chair away himself; but once he's up there, he can't really do anything about the caster doing so, can he? Sure, the spell will end instantly (this should count as a "threatening act") but once he's in the noose, the damage has been done. I personally view this as less obviously suicidal than the example provided in the spell description of a charmed fighter distracting a raging dragon while the caster gets away. The dragon is immediately hazardous and is under no compulsion by the caster; standing on the chair, on the other hand, doesn't seem like such a big deal if the only other person in the room is your "trusted friend and ally." Would an opposed Charisma check be in order? This is clearly not something the subject would normally do (well, probably not), but then again, what does that phrase even mean? What if the subject simply has never done X, but isn't particularly opposed to it? Is X still out of the question no matter who wins the opposed Charisma check? This 1st level spell seems like more trouble than it's worth.
Androcus Divinicus 07-15-05, 02:02 AM	Well ... Charm Person basically makes the charmed person regard you as their best friend. Personally, I wouldn't be too hot on the idea of even my best friend having me stand on a chair while he puts a noose around my neck. It also says "perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way". It doesn't say "always perceives your words and actions in a favorable way". If the most favorable way to perceive something is still unfavorable, then that's the way that the charmed person will perceive it. And ... no matter how favorably you preceive it, you standing on a chair with a noose (ok, call it a rope tied to the ceiling ... doesn't change much) around your neck is still ... well, unfavorable. Personally, if I'm DMing this scenario, you're going to have to think harder to exploit the effects of the Charm Person spell. Regards, Justin.
smrtgmp 07-15-05, 02:14 AM	I could see suggestion inducing such a scenario. "step up on the stool and try on your new tie" IMO, you'll have a hard time convincing a charmed creature to do something like that. It makes them your friend, it doesnt make them stupid. Regarding this:Would an opposed Charisma check be in order? This is clearly not something the subject would normally do (well, probably not), but then again, what does that phrase even mean? What if the subject simply has never done X, but isn't particularly opposed to it? Is X still out of the question no matter who wins the opposed Charisma check?I run it as follows. Something has to be against a targets nature to warrent the charisma check. To me, that means it has to be something opposed to its alignment or its character, such as getting a paladin to commit an evil act or getting an agorophobic individual out of the house.
footdownatgreen 07-15-05, 02:18 AM	You could have the charmed person come check out this awsome veiw from a really tall cliff. Your real ally bull rushes from behind. AHHHHHH!!!!
MinusInnocence 07-15-05, 02:39 AM	All right, thanks everyone. I'm glad we're on the same page. I'm a DM myself, and I was in the shower earlier thinking of ways for an LBEG to exploit relatively simple spells. I still had a hard time justifying this particular one to myself; I agree Suggestion works a lot better for something of this magnitude. Thanks again.
Selcar 07-15-05, 05:08 AM	Charm Person basically makes the charmed person regard you as their best friend You miss read, it says trusted friend and ally. Nothing about best friends. I would just like to point that out cause in my opineon "trusted' and "best" are two tottaly differnt things