Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TaliaWinters 09-02-04, 06:38 PM	The players travel through a rough wilderness, and they don't know what's comming next. YOU, the DM, have planned a "big" fight in front of the players and they are going straight on it. YOU, the DM, are happy about that. But one of the players have Commune with Nature ... - What creatures are in the area and how strong they are? Argh... and now :bigeyes: The whole plan to the trash ... :weep: Any ideas/tips to that stuff?
Seeker95 09-02-04, 10:30 PM	How many creatures in the area? Millions. How strong are they? Immeasurably. Nature is no respector of *your* perceptions and opinions. The most powerful creatures in the area are the insects that can devour any trace of a corpse in a matter of hours or days. The number of creatures includes every ant. If the question is what creatures are in the area, that falls outside the scope of the spell. You can ask if there are any unnatural creatures (undead, aberrations, etc) in the area. You can ask if there are any humanoids in the area. But the spell description does not indicate you can ask what kinds of creatures. If the PCs aren't specific in their questions, you needn't be specific in your answers. The spell is not "grant me omniscience". The spell is "ask a question of the omniscient".
amoeba 09-02-04, 10:45 PM	If the question was reasonable then I don't see the need to punish the player. I mean He is using a druid5/ ranger 4 spell. Do you get mad when you put the PCs in a maze and they just happen to have Find the Path? So he planned well this time and prevented your ambush. Next time, when you are in a urban setting, he won't get nearly as lucky. Besides, he used a level 5 spell. Thats 1 less call lightening storm or baleful polymorph you gotta worry about.
Veton 09-02-04, 10:47 PM	The players travel through a rough wilderness, and they don't know what's comming next. YOU, the DM, have planned a "big" fight in front of the players and they are going straight on it. YOU, the DM, are happy about that. But one of the players have Commune with Nature ... - What creatures are in the area and how strong they are? Argh... and now :bigeyes: The whole plan to the trash ... :weep: Well, here's the description for the spell: You become one with nature, attaining knowledge of the surrounding territory. You instantly gain knowledge of as many as three facts from among the following subjects: the ground or terrain, plants, minerals, bodies of water, people, general animal population, presence of woodland creatures, presence of powerful unnatural creatures, or even the general state of the natural setting. In outdoor settings, the spell operates in a radius of 1 mile per caster level. In natural underground settings—caves, caverns, and the like—the radius is limited to 100 feet per caster level. The spell does not function where nature has been replaced by construction or settlement, such as in dungeons and towns. Basically, it lets you know of unnatural creatures (but it doesn't say it tell you how powerful they are), and people (and the same, it doesn't say how powerful they are.) So while they may know that there is an powerful Undead around, it won't tell them how many Hit Dice s/he has.
Bloodtide_the_Red 09-02-04, 11:09 PM	Commune with nature is quite limited. Look up the spell. You can't use it to ask 'what creature are in the area' or 'how powerful there are'. Comune with nature can only detect three types of creatures..normal animals, woodland creatures and unnatural creatures. It's right in the spell description. And you don't get numbers, just locations The range of this spell is also quite a problem, and a boon. One mile a level, so like 10 miles. So you can detect an undead 10 miles away, hope it's still there by the time you get there. Note it's also a radius, and a radius is flat..not a sphere. so creatures flying or just on higher or lower ground would be missed. BT
BigNastyMP 09-02-04, 11:16 PM	Note it's also a radius, and a radius is flat..not a sphere. so creatures flying or just on higher or lower ground would be missed. You may want to rethink this bit. Check out Skip's latest Rules of the Game, specifically Part 5, for more info on spell areas.
seagreenwitch 09-03-04, 01:07 AM	Look in the DMG on suggestions for dealing with those spells it is great. If it isn't in 3.5 then it is in 3.0 for sure. You have to think about it from a different perspective. Not from oh great they have spoiled my plans but, ok now how can I give them an answer that gives them not to much info. If they are going to be using this spell a lot, then outline in a note previous to the game session so you are not caught off gaurd. When you do things like that players tend to think more before they use such spells.
Dunbar 09-03-04, 01:54 AM	A lot of these suggestions render the spell pretty well useless. If I was a druid and got these kind of answers, I'd just never memorize the spell again. And note the spell says 3 facts from among those subjects. If I said you could know three facts from the subject of say, physics, you could ask anything from the mass of a table to the formula for air resistance on a human in freefall on earth. One of the subjects you can get facts about is the "presense of powerful unnatural creatures." I'd say that subject involves more than simply a single question, "are there powerful unnatural creatures?" I'd say the subject lets you ask "what kind of unnatural creatures are out there?" and "how many owlbears are out there?" are examples of questions you could ask. Admittedly, if someone asked, as Seeker95 says: How many creatures in the area? Millions. How strong are they? Immeasurably. Those answers are fair as they are extremely vague. But if a player were to ask: How many powerful monsters lie on this trail? or Are there groups of monsters near this trail? or something similar, the players should get useful answers. If you do your best to give useless answers, players simply won't use the spell anymore. If that is what you plan to do, you should let your players know just to ignore any divination type spells they could memorize, as they will be useless.
TaliaWinters 09-03-04, 07:10 AM	No I won't let the spell get useless. I just wanted to know some tips to that. I read the spell description from 3.0 PHB and make myself some thought about that and that's all what it was about. But now I think I can handle this. thxs for answering.
Bloodtide_the_Red 09-04-04, 02:21 AM	.....................One of the subjects you can get facts about is the "presense of powerful unnatural creatures." I'd say that subject involves more than simply a single question, "are there powerful unnatural creatures?" I'd say the subject lets you ask "what kind of unnatural creatures are out there?" and "how many owlbears are out there?" are examples of questions you could ask.................................. The spell sure states you can only learn 3 of the things on the list. It also says you instantly gain the knowladge, so no running questions like you have. You state your three questions and get three answers. ...........How many powerful monsters lie on this trail? or Are there groups of monsters near this trail? or something similar,.......... --Except the spell does not do this. It can't detect monsters, only animals woodland creatures and unnatural creatures. .......You may want to rethink this bit. Check out Skip's latest Rules of the Game, specifically Part 5, for more info on spell areas......... It does not apply. A radius is a flat cirlce area, not a three dimensional sphere. Does anyone realy think this spell extends miles underground or in the air? BT
Failut 09-04-04, 02:51 AM	.....................One of the subjects you can get facts about is the "presense of powerful unnatural creatures." I'd say that subject involves more than simply a single question, "are there powerful unnatural creatures?" I'd say the subject lets you ask "what kind of unnatural creatures are out there?" and "how many owlbears are out there?" are examples of questions you could ask.................................. The spell sure states you can only learn 3 of the things on the list. It also says you instantly gain the knowladge, so no running questions like you have. You state your three questions and get three answers. ...........How many powerful monsters lie on this trail? or Are there groups of monsters near this trail? or something similar,.......... --Except the spell does not do this. It can't detect monsters, only animals woodland creatures and unnatural creatures. .......You may want to rethink this bit. Check out Skip's latest Rules of the Game, specifically Part 5, for more info on spell areas......... It does not apply. A radius is a flat cirlce area, not a three dimensional sphere. Does anyone realy think this spell extends miles underground or in the air? BT While I agree on some things that you have posted, this idea that a radius is a flat plane is way to wrong for me to agree to. By your deffinition of a radius, the spells listed below would be quite a bit weaker : Consecrate/Desecrate - 20-ft.-radius emanation (avoid by flying over area) Confusion - All creatures in a 15-ft. radius burst Control weather - 2-mile-radius circle, centered on you (yep fear those rainstorms at ground level, no clouds in the sky for you!) Darkness - 20 ft radius of shadowy illumination (go over) Daylight - 60 ft radius Detect Scrying - 40-ft.-radius emanation centered on you (Scry from above the flat plane = undetectable) Dictum, holy word, word of chaos, blasphemy - 40-ft.-radius spread centered on you (flying = not effected) Dimensional lock - 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space. (fly then planeshift) Dispel Magic - 20-ft-radius burst (can not dispel flying magic) False Vision - 40-ft.-radius emanation (view from above) And congrats! you also made Fly the Uber Powerful spell in the game. I could have gone on with the list (there are a LOT of spells that use Radius as an area that it effects), but it would be pointless, these prove my point quite nicely.
ronyon 09-04-04, 11:30 AM	No,not really.I am just glad that this isnt a problem with my dm. If we use a powerful noncombat spell in a logical manner, he helps us use it correctly, instead of allowing our missteps nerf it. Then, he would make an intelligence check for the oppositions commander to see if he would anticipate or counter this move. Combat in dnd is complicated, but if you as a dm have your forces respond intelligently, a set peice battle can turn into a dynamic running skirmish. A running retreat with foes escaping in all directions calls for different spells/tactics than the set peice battle that players usually expect. A favorite tactic of one gm I know goes like this : 1) Attack pcs,get their attention, and then... 2)Run, stay insight out of reach,then... 3)Ambush!Most players will be too intent on chasing downthe kill to realize it is trap... This works great at low levels with goblins on wolves, with pit traps and archers. It is called a "parking lot", from the cyberpunk game where the pcs were concluding a deal in a parking lot when some punk kid runs by an takes a pot shot. The enraged pcs chase him ,shooting wildly. He evades the shot and runs around the corner of the buiding.The first pc that follows get nailed with ready actions and was obliterated. Note, the pcs could have avoided this fate by not pursuing this kid.As it was they used a lot of ammo,had to run when private security showed up(no cops of course, it's cyberpunk:) ) ,no money in it, and it turns out it was all a distraction from the counterfit nature of the goods they had received. They got reveng and some of them learned to keep their eyes on the prize. So in short"blah,blah,blah,be dynamic in combat, it's fun!"
Rotipher 09-04-04, 03:35 PM	Even if the spell reveals the presence of people, it doesn't say anything about those people's intentions. How's the druid to know if the "presences" are enemies or not? Ambushers could easily pose as a hunting party, frontier villagers, a lost caravan, or some other innocuous group ... at least, until the PCs get close enough. Even detecting "unnatural creatures" doesn't have to be a giveaway, since not all "unnatural" creatures are necessarily Evil (e.g. Good ghosts). Hit the party with a false alarm or two, and they'll learn not to take the results of a Commune With Nature for granted.
Seeker95 09-04-04, 04:20 PM	I think Rotipher has the perfect "happy medium". Make certain that value-laden terms (good, evil, etc.) are interpretted quite loosely. Relationship terms (enemy, friend, etc.) should have either no meaning, or be defined from "nature's" perspective. "Unnatural" is *anything* that has a supernatural ability, or even anything that would normally not live in that environment.
krichaiushii 09-04-04, 10:05 PM	Another option might be to provide occasional challenges that REQUIRE and EXPECT usage of the more obscure spells on a spell list. Your Druid (and other PCs) have gained this power, make 'em use it. An interesting article about the above comment can be found here (http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly16.html). But use your situation as a warning to expect at least some of your players to attempt to use all of their PCs' spells/abilities/etc. to their fullest. If you don't keep an accurate copy of their character sheets yet, I recommend getting them (and keeping them updated) for planning purposes. It keeps you from being surprised and keeps the players pleasently surprised.
Simetrical 09-05-04, 10:59 PM	Originally posted by Bloodtide_the_Red A radius is a flat cirlce area, not a three dimensional sphere. Does anyone realy think this spell extends miles underground or in the air?A "radius" is not a flat circle. Anything that's round in any way (any figure that involves a full or partial locus of points equidistant from a given point) has a radius. This includes circles, spheres, cylinders, cones (although there the radii vary in length), etc. Any time anyone says "within a [distance] radius," they mean "within [distance]." "Within a ten-mile radius" means "within ten miles." Often this just means within ten miles on the ground, but it doesn't have to. As for the spell extending miles underground or in the air, I would limit the spell to 100 feet/level once it hits the ground, but allow it to go miles in the air.