Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nos13 02-12-08, 08:03 AM	Is there some sort of rod or gem or some other magic item that uses the "Eschew Materials" feat? If there is, what's the price/weight/where can I find it in the books? If not, what would be those statistics, and could I make one, or would this be too powerful? --Nos13
runestar 02-12-08, 08:09 AM	Do you want it to actually grant you the eschew materials feat, or just its benefits? Because a normal spell component pouch does the very same thing.:P
DracoPhoenix 02-12-08, 08:13 AM	Is there some sort of rod or gem or some other magic item that uses the "Eschew Materials" feat? If there is, what's the price/weight/where can I find it in the books? If not, what would be those statistics, and could I make one, or would this be too powerful? --Nos13 Well, spell component pouch replicates 90% of it's functionality. For about 5gp. Also, the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components) does say don't bother tracking supplies for the <1gp stuff. So Eschew Materials is only an issue if the DM likes to grapple / immobolise the wizard a lot. In which case, taking the feat is probably a good investment (Such DMs are likely to find ways to remove said item).
Wellspring 02-12-08, 08:56 AM	DM's who track spell components, or take away our gear, end up with players who use this alot. Epic players sometimes take it as a prereq for Ignore Material Components. Enchanting a spell component pouch with a 3/day Eschew Materials use should be pretty cheap, but there are no specific rules for metamagic feats that can be systemized. You'll have to use your DM judgement. I'd call it a convenience item and price it as such-- in the 3-10k range. For an unlimited use item, metamagic rods can't be your guide. I'm not sure what it would run, but keep in mind that if it's worth buying there's got to be some reason. The normal reasons to just take the feat don't apply.
Seeker95 02-12-08, 10:29 AM	Enchanting an item with eschew materials requires you to have the item, negating the benefit of eschew materials.
defender_of_odintyr 02-12-08, 11:47 AM	Is there some sort of rod or gem or some other magic item that uses the "Eschew Materials" feat? If there is, what's the price/weight/where can I find it in the books? If not, what would be those statistics, and could I make one, or would this be too powerful? --Nos13 My solution, don't bother with material componnents until spell level 6 and up and maybe for a few of the more powerful spells in lower levels. But personally I've never DM'd a game where I was like "hey you can't cast that spell you don't have a candle, or the leg of a grasshopper or something stupid and mundain you'd have to waste your time acquiring while in town."
Howie23 02-12-08, 12:44 PM	Is there some sort of rod or gem or some other magic item that uses the "Eschew Materials" feat? If there is, what's the price/weight/where can I find it in the books? If not, what would be those statistics, and could I make one, or would this be too powerful? This isn't exactly what you were asking, but if you're looking at getting rid of materials: I've played with a DM who tried using a bonded focus rather than material components. He subsequently just went to granting Eschew Materials as a bonus feat. I'm not really sure what the motivation was; it was prior to my entry into the group. It may have been something associated with logical issues stemming from episodes such as, "We don't starve. I have an unlimited supply of bacon in my spell component pouch for use with grease," or, "Of course I have chalk, in my pouch..." Personally, I have no problem with keeping the abstraction about the spell component pouch as just that, but some folks relate more concretely to game elements.
Nos13 02-12-08, 04:07 PM	Well, spell component pouch replicates 90% of it's functionality. For about 5gp. Also, the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components) does say don't bother tracking supplies for the <1gp stuff. That works for me. It's just I normally play with a spellcaster, and I just recently bought the SpC (with my eyes widening as I opened the package). I want to use some of the new spells, so I talked to my DM about material components. He said he'd have us walk past a beehive for X amount of bug bodies, we'd go past a colony(?) of grasshoppers to get Y amount of legs, etc. I just didn't want to bother keeping track of my material components so I thought I'd ask. So as long as I have a spell pouch, I have an infinite amount of everything? --Nos13
Seeker95 02-12-08, 05:07 PM	So as long as I have a spell pouch, I have an infinite amount of everything?In most games, by default, yes. In my game, your component pouch gets replaced as a standard part of your upkeep fees. See, I require PCs to spend 10gp / character level / month of game time for default upkeep of their equipment and belongings. It'll replace or mend torn socks, sharpen weapons, tighten straps, maintain bows, replace used components, etc.
InkBlot 02-12-08, 05:44 PM	So as long as I have a spell pouch, I have an infinite amount of everything? Yes. You might still want to roleplay collecting spellcomponents, but it shouldn't be enforced or tracked. I do that when I play a Wizard. If some owlbears ambush us in the woods, and my Wizard is flatfooted and gets the lowest initiative, then I might say "Ashleigh didn't notice the owlbears because he was bending over to pick up a live spider to put in his spell component pouch." But I wouldn't mark down "live spider" under "spellcomponent pouch" on my character sheet, and it wouldn't have made any difference to the DM if I had instead said "Ashleigh didn't notice the owlbears because he was playing on his flute." edit: Technically, you don't have an infinite amount of everything. You have an indefinite supply of every non-expensive (less than 1gp) spell component for every spell you know. It doesn't make much difference in play, but the differences is there (it's like the difference between infinity and infinity-plus-two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_null)).
1 ton ghost 02-13-08, 12:53 PM	good idea btw. -traditionally, yeah, a bag that just keeps on pumping out guano, guaze, etc. would probably suit the theme overall. i really like this wondrous item. -perhaps a Glove ala a cannibalized Heward's Handy Haversack. the component in question (1gp or less of course) instantly appears in your hand. should it have a storage limit? not be opearable like a Glove of Storing, simply, endless cheap components, not 1 actual "object". or "loaded" w/ purchased components that can be replenished normally (see below) -everytime you go into town (1/month on avg?) and the like, you should have to spend about 1gp to replenlish your spell bag. your Bag in question could fix alot most do not consider: -what normally happens to alot of spell components when you're bullrushed into a body of water let alone your un-waterproofed spell book? -arctic/desert temps can compromise alot of them too w/out Endure Elements. jungle (hot/humid) makes your guano liquify and useless in some cases, not to mention water. -creatures w/ Scent should be able to zero you pretty easilly given all the unusual/out-of-place smells emanating from the bag (mage). Disguise is largely useless even w/ a zillion ranks if you smell like lizards and dung. -Sunder/Disarm of said bag (holy symbols too) cripples you. -having an obvious "spell bag" brands you as a mage, and more likely for Fort based attacks, things to capitalize on their weakness. ie)w/ the glove variant or an alternative and a modicum of Disguise, you have anonymity. like mithral chain shirts, under normal clothing, you can't tell that the guy is a Ftr, Rog, etc.
DracoPhoenix 02-13-08, 01:00 PM	-having an obvious "spell bag" brands you as a mage, and more likely for Fort based attacks, things to capitalize on their weakness. ie)w/ the glove variant or an alternative and a modicum of Disguise, you have anonymity. like mithral chain shirts, under normal clothing, you can't tell that the guy is a Ftr, Rog, etc. I find not being in any serious armour tends to get me marked out as the mage :( Well, at least when I haven't got my glammered robes :P
1 ton ghost 02-13-08, 02:55 PM	I find not being in any serious armour tends to get me marked out as the mage :( Well, at least when I haven't got my glammered robes :P ok. not everyone is wearing their armor all the time either. that is, even a Ftr, once he gets into town is going to be dying to get out of his full plate as it's a pain in the ass, slow you down, uncomfortable, etc. ninjas and some scoundrel types don't wear armor. so on and so forth. we like to put the Hat of Disguise on the mage for it's factory preset so to speak in game. if he looks like another class, race, etc., he'll be designated thusly. even w/out the Hat, it's worth the spell slot to have an intelligent monster/enemy assume "it's just a henchman/shield barer/etc" when truth be told, the mage is, and always has been, the biggest wild card.
Father Dale 02-13-08, 02:57 PM	Theres a magic item in the Dragonlance book Towers of High Sorcery that does this. They are gloves that, when both are worn, the "wearer can act as if he had the Eschew Materials" feat. There is no times per day, the effect is constant. The listed price is 36K and requires Eschew materials and the major creation spell to create. My wizard has them and I like them very much. While there have been very few 'combat' uses for Eschew Materials, there have been occasions where it has been useful. In our games we don't 'track' spell components per se, and most non-costly components are just assumed to be on hand and available. However, some spells require 'non-costly' components that would be rather difficult to come by (e.g. Blackfire's pinch of dust from a vampire destroyed by sunlight), and the gloves have helped me to avoid the matter of actually acquiring such items.
1 ton ghost 02-13-08, 03:55 PM	Theres a magic item in the Dragonlance book Towers of High Sorcery that does this. They are gloves that, when both are worn, the "wearer can act as if he had the Eschew Materials" feat. There is no times per day, the effect is constant. The listed price is 36K and requires Eschew materials and the major creation spell to create. My wizard has them and I like them very much. While there have been very few 'combat' uses for Eschew Materials, there have been occasions where it has been useful. In our games we don't 'track' spell components per se, and most non-costly components are just assumed to be on hand and available. However, some spells require 'non-costly' components that would be rather difficult to come by (e.g. Blackfire's pinch of dust from a vampire destroyed by sunlight), and the gloves have helped me to avoid the matter of actually acquiring such items. gloves! ah ha, i knew it! well, not such a huge leap given slot affinity and all, but still... better call Ripley's. nice though, thanks for the heads up. 36k though...damn. too rich for my blood. seems pretty high when you can find alot of other items that mimic feats, especially more "mechanically involved" ones for alot less. what's a Glove of Storing Cost? that's basically a free Quick Draw, but not just for weapons, oh no. imagine wand retrieval w/out the move action and the tactical problems therein. Summons are always Full Rnd actions. being able to get that wand out for free, blast away (Standard), and use your Move to get into a dead zone is precious. this facilitates that end. timely item retrieval, etc. some Intelligent weapons give up feats too (priced in rear of DMG). 36k seems pretty damn high, but i wound definetly want one as a mage and that cheap but ultra rare component scenario (vamp dust) you stipulated. brilliant. i didn't think of that. can't just jog into a store to buy that though i would think it's sticker price would be more than 1gp. whatever, the point is availability you mentioned, so nj on that end...
InkBlot 02-13-08, 04:53 PM	... that's basically a free Quick Draw, but not just for weapons, oh no. imagine wand retrieval w/out the move action and the tactical problems therein. Quick Draw does allow you to draw wands as a free action. "Draw a weapon" includes drawing wands, and so Quick Draw must apply to wands as well. Draw or Sheathe a Weapon Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item. Also, there's the mundane Wand Bracer from Dungeonscape which stores five wands and lets you draw each as a swift action. Loading a wand into the bracer takes a full-round-action, but you could just drop it as a free action, or stick it in your belt as a move action. A Wand Bracer costs less than 1% the cost of the 36,000gp "Gloves Of Eschew Materials," and 3% the cost of a Glove Of Storing. The "Gloves Of Eschew Materials" are a total rip-off, if all they do is give you that feat. I suspect there must be another aspect to them. Perhaps they also replace expensive material components, instead of just inexpensive ones like the feat does.
Nos13 02-14-08, 07:58 AM	The "Gloves Of Eschew Materials" are a total rip-off, if all they do is give you that feat. I suspect there must be another aspect to them. Perhaps they also replace expensive material components, instead of just inexpensive ones like the feat does. So then, maybe we should make a Gloves of Eschew Materials, Lesser? All I really need right now are the components that aren't that hard to find; the small availability of the other items is irrelevant to me right now. --Nos13
1 ton ghost 02-14-08, 11:44 AM	Quick Draw does allow you to draw wands as a free action. "Draw a weapon" includes drawing wands, and so Quick Draw must apply to wands as well. Also, there's the mundane Wand Bracer from Dungeonscape which stores five wands and lets you draw each as a swift action. Loading a wand into the bracer takes a full-round-action, but you could just drop it as a free action, or stick it in your belt as a move action. A Wand Bracer costs less than 1% the cost of the 36,000gp "Gloves Of Eschew Materials," and 3% the cost of a Glove Of Storing. stay w/ me now... i know a great many wands and weapon-esque items can be draw as part of a Move Action or employed thusly w/ Quick Draw. that's why i said it, hence the gloves mimicing the feat. everyone knows that wands are essentially skinny daggers, etc. and quick drawing them is totally actionable that is...if you have the feat or this item in question. w/out said gloves or feat, you're using a Move Action or drawing it as part of one, either way, leaving you w/ only your Standard to trigger it and a 5ft step. having that extra Move via the gloves (for Standard spells) saves your ass alot of the time as a caster, but is invaluable as a scoundrel type per normal functions. this is just considering one niche, and that's only spellcasters. and how many magi, apart from the occaisional Arcane Trickster, take Quick Draw as a feat? i would make the theoretical bag/gloves of Eschew way way cheaper. they're not functioning w/ the blanket policy Gloves of Storing do, it's only cheap material components. ie)just like the feat, though the rare components might be debateable. this is just under the same aegis we assign Travel Cloaks or anything w/ Endure Elements; just taking care of an annoying universal constant. you don't have to worry about petty details that is. not sure if the "spell bag of Eschew" would mirror a HH Haversack. componet leaps to hand like a rabbit out of a hat, but no extra space extradimensionally speaking. no space really, it's coming from out of nothing. all that's left is pricing. ideas?
Nos13 02-15-08, 04:21 PM	i would make the theoretical bag/gloves of Eschew way way cheaper... not sure if the "spell bag of Eschew" would mirror a HH Haversack. componet leaps to hand like a rabbit out of a hat, but no extra space extradimensionally speaking. no space really, it's coming from out of nothing. all that's left is pricing. ideas? Well, I would agree on your price to be cheaper than 36K, but I don't know of much else. Would it be in the "5-digit" range, or more of the "4-digit" range? I would think maybe mid-4s, but I'm kinda new to playing, so it may be off. Thanks a bunch, 1 ton ghost! --Nos13
1 ton ghost 02-16-08, 02:58 PM	Well, I would agree on your price to be cheaper than 36K, but I don't know of much else. Would it be in the "5-digit" range, or more of the "4-digit" range? I would think maybe mid-4s, but I'm kinda new to playing, so it may be off. Thanks a bunch, 1 ton ghost! --Nos13 um, no problem really. this is your proposal actually, so truth be told, i'm the one swimming in your wake, but i digress. hard to find a formula for plain feat mimicry, but this isn't a huge one (feat) so it should be reasonable. i think your 4's range is a nice conservative measure providing it's just procuring 1gp or less components. more than 2k gp, but less than 8k. somewhere in there. another MAJOR consideration is the slot in question. gloves or a hat (like "Presto's" in the D&D cartoon) that could produce cheap components take up a slot, so they should be cheaper than a bag that does the same. so, that leaves out Arcanist's Gloves, Headbands of Int, things like that. i know there are ruling for that in the back of the DMG, just not for specific feat mimicry. slotless stuff is usually more expensive basically. have to be Swift Actions too i'd wager or no one would employ them given the Standard to cast. i'd shy away from command word activated too. kinda' hamstrings magi that want a Silent Spell or any stealth tactics pre spell but that's really contingent on the designer, not the buying mage. these would have to ALWAYS preempt spellcasting ONLY too. just pulling a component out of the hat/bag/glove could be detrimental to balance if done outside casting. that is, some components are relevant/useable outside castings and could be employed, sold, etc. pulling out an eye of newt/lizard tongue to bait a wild animal should be the Drd/Rng's sphere of influence, not the mage's. bat guano could be used to influence Scent (Ex) and the like. all at the "flick of a wrist" too. this is why i feel it can only facilitate magics and nothing else. damn, this could really be something, but i don't want to 1/2 ass it. any more ideas, price adjustments, anything...kindly toss it this way plz.
Tedronai 02-17-08, 11:22 AM	There is a 1st level swift action bard spell in Complete Mage, called Summon Component, that does essentially that. Just make a Use Activated (casting a spell) glove of said spell, and you have the mechanics of the item set (I'd suggest the price recommended in the DMG table would even be rather appropriate as well - around 4k).
1 ton ghost 02-17-08, 02:57 PM	There is a 1st level swift action bard spell in Complete Mage, called Summon Component, that does essentially that. Just make a Use Activated (casting a spell) glove of said spell, and you have the mechanics of the item set (I'd suggest the price recommended in the DMG table would even be rather appropriate as well - around 4k). Hell yeah... you're the man. nj.
Nos13 02-17-08, 05:19 PM	I guess the only problem is I'm not sure about gloves. Can it be in the form of something else (i.e. a wrist bracelet, a ring...)? Otherwise, awesome find, Tedronai! --Nos13
Tedronai 02-18-08, 08:33 PM	I guess the only problem is I'm not sure about gloves. Can it be in the form of something else (i.e. a wrist bracelet, a ring...)? Otherwise, awesome find, Tedronai! --Nos13 I could see a ring making sense, but not really a bracelet. Anyway, such decisions are best left to the DM, as they are little more than opinion and flavour.
1 ton ghost 02-19-08, 01:13 PM	slot affinity. for feel and flavor yes, however, mechanically it's expressed pretty b/w. intellect and so forth is head, strength is arms/hands, etc. ideally, it should be a theoretical spell "bag", but that's slotless. still, it fits the motif very well and i like it. failing that, the magic gloves, like a stage magician's so to speak. the hat i think is a good slot too as, 'watch me pull this out of my hat' comes to mind... even if it is just a facilitator of magic. the artistic licese won't affect mechanics. you put your hand in, magic works, component appears, work spell accordingly. whatever you want to say happens, it's just a matter of the slot. you could make it a cloak, boots even. you're just gonna' have to pay more as it isn't "traditional" in its theme. that is, you could have Boots of Ogre Strength, but you'll pay more as it's not slot appropriate.
Nos13 02-19-08, 06:40 PM	slot affinity. for feel and flavor yes, however, mechanically it's expressed pretty b/w. intellect and so forth is head, strength is arms/hands, etc. This would be one reason why I kept with examples like ring or bracelet, though these don't really work as well. ideally, it should be a theoretical spell "bag", but that's slotless.... even if it is just a facilitator of magic. the artistic licese won't affect mechanics. you put your hand in, magic works, component appears, work spell accordingly. whatever you want to say happens, it's just a matter of the slot. My first thought of it was going to be a bag anyway, just one that actually allows the use of overlooking materials, versus just calling them null and void, as in the spell component pouch. What would the stats be on it if it were a bag? Maybe we could consider it something similar to a bag of tricks, in that there are enough components for X spells per day, and each day it comes back to exactly X spells. Would this work? --Nos13
V1zharan 02-19-08, 07:29 PM	To prevent abuses of this like selling vampire dust to people and pulling out crickets and such to bait animals, maybe say that after 6 seconds the component disappears. This way it lasts long enough to cast the spell, but not long enough to do anything more. Just my :twocents: ~V1zharan~
Nos13 02-19-08, 09:20 PM	To prevent abuses of this like selling vampire dust to people and pulling out crickets and such to bait animals, maybe say that after 6 seconds the component disappears. This way it lasts long enough to cast the spell, but not long enough to do anything more. Just my :twocents: ~V1zharan~ I like that. It keeps with the spellcasters ONLY! theme, and, IMO, would push the cost down a bit. --Nos13
1 ton ghost 02-20-08, 10:25 AM	seems sound. i was just sticking to my original design that summoned components be used only for the express purpose of the incoming spell. putting a time delay is fine, but just in case, i want the luxury of keeping it available in hand to free up a theoretical Swift Action...just in case. ok, this is kinda' what i'm theorizing. "Bag/Gloves of Timely Components" Craft Wondrous Item, CL ? still unknown to me Summon Component. probably not too high a CL. Swift Action Useage, mental 4,000gp (still not 100% here, haven't put through DMG forumla mill) Bag in question must (should?) be expressed as divine or arcane during creation. They are not interchangable. Sor/Wzd/Wrl/etc can craft arcane, Clr/Drd/Pal/Rng/etc., divine. A surrogate caster may be used to supply the relevant spell for the 4? days needed in the creation, thought the crafter (whoever supplies the feat) must pay the XP and time accordingly. Gives user Eschew Materials feat for the purposes of abjucating spell components. Nothing over 1gp in value. Components are subject to Dispel Magic, Anti-Magic and the like as per normal rulings in accordance w/ CL of the item. The user merely concentrates momentarilly, places hand in bag (or balls fisted glove) and theoretical component appears in quick fashion. This is only for the purposes of the incoming spell in question. ie)you can't prepare a series of components ahead of time. This will prevent unbalancing mechanics such as the sale of exotic components or circumnavigating the expenditure of a Swift Action in the future. That is, the user must commit to the bag for a spell that round, or find alternative means of fueling the material component stipulation of spell 'x'. If a new spell and it's component are desired, the previous one should disappear if a new one is conjured. That is, 1 at a time. Can't stock up in advance, etc. When in doubt, check spell descriptor and follow accordingly. Bag should be treated as normal lether bag w/ typical Hardness and HP. Mundane or magical items could be stored therein, but are afforded no magical protections of FX. Simply put, if not used for its summoning application, it is merely a glorified satchel or purse, nothing more, no extradimensional space, nothing.
Nos13 02-21-08, 08:18 AM	seems sound. i was just sticking to my original design that summoned components be used only for the express purpose of the incoming spell. putting a time delay is fine, but just in case, i want the luxury of keeping it available in hand to free up a theoretical Swift Action...just in case. ok, this is kinda' what i'm theorizing. "Bag/Gloves of Timely Components" Craft Wondrous Item, CL ? still unknown to me Summon Component. probably not too high a CL. Swift Action Useage, mental 4,000gp (still not 100% here, haven't put through DMG forumla mill) Bag in question must (should?) be expressed as divine or arcane during creation. They are not interchangable. Sor/Wzd/Wrl/etc can craft arcane, Clr/Drd/Pal/Rng/etc., divine. A surrogate caster may be used to supply the relevant spell for the 4? days needed in the creation, thought the crafter (whoever supplies the feat) must pay the XP and time accordingly. Gives user Eschew Materials feat for the purposes of abjucating spell components. Nothing over 1gp in value. Components are subject to Dispel Magic, Anti-Magic and the like as per normal rulings in accordance w/ CL of the item. The user merely concentrates momentarilly, places hand in bag (or balls fisted glove) and theoretical component appears in quick fashion. This is only for the purposes of the incoming spell in question. ie)you can't prepare a series of components ahead of time. This will prevent unbalancing mechanics such as the sale of exotic components or circumnavigating the expenditure of a Swift Action in the future. That is, the user must commit to the bag for a spell that round, or find alternative means of fueling the material component stipulation of spell 'x'. If a new spell and it's component are desired, the previous one should disappear if a new one is conjured. That is, 1 at a time. Can't stock up in advance, etc. When in doubt, check spell descriptor and follow accordingly. Bag should be treated as normal lether bag w/ typical Hardness and HP. Mundane or magical items could be stored therein, but are afforded no magical protections of FX. Simply put, if not used for its summoning application, it is merely a glorified satchel or purse, nothing more, no extradimensional space, nothing. (underlined and some bolded by me) Very nice, 1 ton! I like it! I like the way you can only make arcane or divine, so the mage and the ranger in a party can't share the same bag. What do you mean about this sentence? I read it that you take a full-round action to get the component from the item, whereas in the sentences just before you state you only need a swift action. I would hate to lose this in a fire. Maybe a small bit of DR against fire? I don't want to say too much, maybe even DR 2 or 3. But just walking through a wall of fire, and your bag could be gone. Of course, this does give the spellcaster the need to think on their feet. Hmm... Again, nice! I like it! --Nos13
1 ton ghost 02-21-08, 02:56 PM	Very nice, 1 ton! I like it! i'd like to thank the acadamy, God, my baby's momma'... I like the way you can only make arcane or divine, so the mage and the ranger in a party can't share the same bag. didn't even occur to me interchangability, i just thought "apples and oranges". 2 types of magic, 2 types of fuel so to speak. but you raise a very good point tactically speaking. thank you. yes, "seperate but equal" seems to be DMG doctrine about magic, item creation is no exception. as per Item Creation feats, i must play ball too. given the theoretical "divine bag", a holy symbol should not qualify, only Material Components, not Focuses (big difference). there is a Summon Holy Symbol which would imply a whole new item in question. i guess under that reasoning, holly & mistletoe go w/ that policy. the bag is just for guano, glass rods, gum arabic, stuff like that. ie)new spell affect, new (different) item What do you mean about this sentence? I read it that you take a full-round action to get the component from the item, whereas in the sentences just before you state you only need a swift action. no no no, i wouldn't do that to you or other PCs. perhaps i should've illustrated more clearly. making summoned component retrieval from the bag longer than a Standard would kinda' defeat the purpose/practicality. the item's use activation is a Swift Action (i think it should be anyway) which still leaves you 1 Move and 1 Standard Action(s) to cast w/...plus you're 5ft step. technically, casting a spell "traditionally" involves snatching said component from a normal bag, but you gotta' pay the piper, even a little bit, for this magic one. i mean, you're able to produce components when you might not ever be able to; temperature, planar FX, vacume, haven't "restocked" when last in town, etc. a Swift Action should meet that end. ex)so, your scout yells "troll up ahead". your turn comes; you take 1 Move Action to get in line of sight, 1 Swift to summon up some bat poo (from bag), and 1 Standard to turn said poo into Fireball. the other stipulation of the Swift Action (you get 1 Swift/rnd btw) is that said activation should be mental command IMO. you'd give away your position otherwise, Silent Spell (feat) becomes useless, and balance, i think, is the biggest concern; you're only mimicing a 1st lvl spell (Summon Component). or is it a cantrip? anyway, i couldn't in good conscience ask a caster to make it verbal command activation. he's one good enemy Listen check away from death. the effort would not warrant the item, etc. besides, if the incoming spell the bag is facilitating has a Verbal component, they have equal chances of hearing that. no double jeaopardy. [/QUOTE]I would hate to lose this in a fire. Maybe a small bit of DR against fire? I don't want to say too much, maybe even DR 2 or 3. But just walking through a wall of fire, and your bag could be gone. Of course, this does give the spellcaster the need to think on their feet. Hmm...[/QUOTE] i totally feel you on that, but you'd need seperate enchantments to beef up the bag's physical integrity, protections, DR. my hands are tied in this matter per game ruling. sorry, i'll buy you a beer... there are provisions in CompArcane and Magic of Faerun for enchancing spell books; Waterproofing (big fav of mine), Glammering (book looks like your mess kit), adding energy resistance, etc. i suppose you could very well apply this reasoning/mechanics to the mage's spell bag. i mean, they are both equally important tactically speaking. one's useless w/out the other. it stands to reason that protecting both be imperative, so good eye for that. hmm, i like that actually. thanks for bringing that up. you'd have to pay extra of course to "amp" said bag beyond it's normal specs and initial sticker price as the 4k gp is just to cover the mimicking of 1 feat via permanent Wondrous Item magics. that is, you want more, you gotta' pay for it like alway. i know, sucks, but fair is fair according to the DMG. i suppose you could make it a "box" (wood/metal), but you don't normally "sling your box over your shoulder". whatever, personal taste. nothing to say it must be a bag, gloves, etc. i simply thought, "traditional spell component bag, i'm copying a feat, i'll just use the bag." provisions to make spell books w/ metal bindings/etc., exist, i think some judicous cannibalization on the DM's end could renegotiate this magical component bag and insure it's safety for the mage as you have implied. look of MagofFaerun and CompArcane/Mage and kinda' hipshoot what you think the additional protections/enchantments should cost. if you can stick them on a book, you should, in terms of BALANCE and FLAVOR be able to stick them on your spelll bag.
Loren Pechtel 02-21-08, 07:23 PM	A couple of variations on this that I'm not going to try to price for now: 1) A bag that allows you to draw as a free action like you normally would when casting spells. 2) A bag that permits multiple draws in a round but you can still only have one component--this allows you to use it on a quickened and a regular spell.
1 ton ghost 02-22-08, 12:04 PM	A couple of variations on this that I'm not going to try to price for now: 1) A bag that allows you to draw as a free action like you normally would when casting spells. 2) A bag that permits multiple draws in a round but you can still only have one component--this allows you to use it on a quickened and a regular spell. i like this, your constructive additions are totally decent and very welcome btw. i was torn between Free and Swift Actions for Bag activation. that is, you get some grey area in that you have a nearly unlimited amount of Free's, but only 1 Swift in a rnd. i just thought Swift felt more appropriate as you need to committ to item 'x'. you should have to pay some price (apart from $) in terms of time. normally, this isn't an issue given the small scale and sacrifice of PC time tactically speaking, but w/ new material that is becoming Swift, i think it's apt. but given your 2nd point of order w/ Quickened Spells and their ilk, Swift would forbid that, so i suppose it would have to be a Free Action to "draw (summon)" components to reach that end. Multi-Draws; quite right, i'm w/ you 100% here. why further penalize a mage for sacrificing a feat i suppose. this is probably the only exception i can think of as you are indentured to 1 bag, having feats that you suddenly cannot use makes it/them very unattractive. nj btw. still stipulating 1 spell at a time. can't summon up a fistful of components ahead of time. casting-by-wire as it were. but yes, i'm in total agreement.
Loren Pechtel 02-23-08, 12:51 PM	i like this, your constructive additions are totally decent and very welcome btw. i was torn between Free and Swift Actions for Bag activation. that is, you get some grey area in that you have a nearly unlimited amount of Free's, but only 1 Swift in a rnd. i just thought Swift felt more appropriate as you need to committ to item 'x'. you should have to pay some price (apart from $) in terms of time. normally, this isn't an issue given the small scale and sacrifice of PC time tactically speaking, but w/ new material that is becoming Swift, i think it's apt. but given your 2nd point of order w/ Quickened Spells and their ilk, Swift would forbid that, so i suppose it would have to be a Free Action to "draw (summon)" components to reach that end. Multi-Draws; quite right, i'm w/ you 100% here. why further penalize a mage for sacrificing a feat i suppose. this is probably the only exception i can think of as you are indentured to 1 bag, having feats that you suddenly cannot use makes it/them very unattractive. nj btw. still stipulating 1 spell at a time. can't summon up a fistful of components ahead of time. casting-by-wire as it were. but yes, i'm in total agreement. Multi-draw requires it to be a free action.
1 ton ghost 02-23-08, 03:15 PM	Multi-draw requires it to be a free action. um, yeah... that's what i just said, hence me being in agreement w/ you.