"Extra Spell" and Corrupt spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Extra Spell" and Corrupt spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
J.B.
03-13-05, 07:47 PM This may have been asked before so please forgive for asking again, but can sorcerers gain access to corrupt spells through use of the "Extra Spell" feat. I know that the feat can be used to gain access to spells not on the normal sorcerer/wizard's spell list as long as they are of an arcane origin (I believe this was generally agreed upon by all although there is still some question as to whether the bard cure spell's were being considered arcane and such).

If "not" is it because "corrupt" spells are considered neither arcane nor divine, but rather a special set of spells that only memorizing-spell casters have access to. If this is true then wouldn't it be possible to take the "Prepare Spell" feat to gain access to them.

So lets have your opinions or facts to add.
Kyuketsukiouji
03-13-05, 07:54 PM Spell preparation definitely works.

I don't really see the reason why they made corrupt spells unusable by those who cast spontaneously, though.
Vatras
03-13-05, 08:31 PM I suppose you talk about the corrupt spells from the BoVD?
I never saw the point of limiting these spells to only wizards and clerics (ok, I would not use them myself :)). I give them to all of my NPCs, who have the right amount of nastiness, and fulfill the requirements.

Technically, by the rules, a sorcerer has no way to get them. The Extra Spell feat can give him nothing he could not gain by level, and Spell Preparation lets him only prepare spells he already knows (useful for quickened spells, which otherwise are not possible to a sorcerer).
runestar
03-13-05, 10:59 PM How are the spells only available to wizs? If wizs can cast it, it means it will appear on their spell list, and by inferring, it will be available to sorcs as well, right? This is just speculation on my part since I don't own BOVD.
Nyat
03-13-05, 11:04 PM Just like with sanctified spells it says that you can't cast it if your a spontanious caster. Basically "no sorcerers allowed and no we wont give a reason!"

Poor sorcerers get no love.
strenoth
03-13-05, 11:11 PM well, the thing is, the ability damage you take for the spells, you take when you prep them, which sorcs don't do, so they wouldn;t pay that cost.

Of cours,e you coudl just rule that they take the damage when they cast the spells instead.
green_yawgmoth
03-13-05, 11:44 PM well, the thing is, the ability damage you take for the spells, you take when you prep them, which sorcs don't do, so they wouldn;t pay that cost.

Of cours,e you coudl just rule that they take the damage when they cast the spells instead.
They take the damage when the duration of the spell expires, and if you make a scroll/potion/etc. of a corrupt spell, the user is the one who takes the damage.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
DM Zoc
03-13-05, 11:58 PM The "Extra Spell" feat does not allow you to gain access to spells which are not on the Wiz/Sorc spell list. It allows you to learn an extra spell which you could not normally learn because you have an enforced cap on spells known (as a sorcerer) or because the spell is unavailable to you (as a wizard). An example of the latter would be a spell which would require great time to research (and it's a fast-moving campaign), or a spell which is "secret" knowledge (which again, you could theoretically research if you had enough time and resources).

The "Extra Spell" feat is not the magical equivalent of the "Expanded Knowledge" psionic feat.
J.B.
03-14-05, 01:59 AM Actually the "Extra Spell" feat does let you have access to spells not on your spell list. Originally I didn't think this, but then I read one of the free, online, DnD adventures (Tarth Morda) and found one of the characters, an NPC Suel Arcanamach (who casts like a sorcerer), using the above-mentioned feat to get "Hail of Stone" and "Accuracy" as two of his known-spells.
runestar
03-14-05, 05:17 AM Is that NPC the warmage? Hail of stones is a 1st lv sor.wiz spell, so its legit for extra spell. Not sure what accuracy does so can't comment on it.
J.B.
03-14-05, 11:16 PM Normally I'ld agree with you, (I realize "Hail of Stones" is a sor/wiz spell in "Players Guide to Faerun" which refers back to the "Underdark" book), but they don't present it as such in the Complete Arcane. You'll notice it is a Wu Jen and Warmage spell only.

Although I admit it is possible that it may have been some kind of oversight, but according to WOTC (or so I'm told) the newer products are supposed to be considered updated versions of the older ones.

P.S. - I was incorrect about "Accuracy". It is a sor/wiz spell and I believed the Suel Arcanamach took it in that class.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
J.B. 03-13-05, 07:47 PM	This may have been asked before so please forgive for asking again, but can sorcerers gain access to corrupt spells through use of the "Extra Spell" feat. I know that the feat can be used to gain access to spells not on the normal sorcerer/wizard's spell list as long as they are of an arcane origin (I believe this was generally agreed upon by all although there is still some question as to whether the bard cure spell's were being considered arcane and such). If "not" is it because "corrupt" spells are considered neither arcane nor divine, but rather a special set of spells that only memorizing-spell casters have access to. If this is true then wouldn't it be possible to take the "Prepare Spell" feat to gain access to them. So lets have your opinions or facts to add.
Kyuketsukiouji 03-13-05, 07:54 PM	Spell preparation definitely works. I don't really see the reason why they made corrupt spells unusable by those who cast spontaneously, though.
Vatras 03-13-05, 08:31 PM	I suppose you talk about the corrupt spells from the BoVD? I never saw the point of limiting these spells to only wizards and clerics (ok, I would not use them myself :)). I give them to all of my NPCs, who have the right amount of nastiness, and fulfill the requirements. Technically, by the rules, a sorcerer has no way to get them. The Extra Spell feat can give him nothing he could not gain by level, and Spell Preparation lets him only prepare spells he already knows (useful for quickened spells, which otherwise are not possible to a sorcerer).
runestar 03-13-05, 10:59 PM	How are the spells only available to wizs? If wizs can cast it, it means it will appear on their spell list, and by inferring, it will be available to sorcs as well, right? This is just speculation on my part since I don't own BOVD.
Nyat 03-13-05, 11:04 PM	Just like with sanctified spells it says that you can't cast it if your a spontanious caster. Basically "no sorcerers allowed and no we wont give a reason!" Poor sorcerers get no love.
strenoth 03-13-05, 11:11 PM	well, the thing is, the ability damage you take for the spells, you take when you prep them, which sorcs don't do, so they wouldn;t pay that cost. Of cours,e you coudl just rule that they take the damage when they cast the spells instead.
green_yawgmoth 03-13-05, 11:44 PM	well, the thing is, the ability damage you take for the spells, you take when you prep them, which sorcs don't do, so they wouldn;t pay that cost. Of cours,e you coudl just rule that they take the damage when they cast the spells instead. They take the damage when the duration of the spell expires, and if you make a scroll/potion/etc. of a corrupt spell, the user is the one who takes the damage. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
DM Zoc 03-13-05, 11:58 PM	The "Extra Spell" feat does not allow you to gain access to spells which are not on the Wiz/Sorc spell list. It allows you to learn an extra spell which you could not normally learn because you have an enforced cap on spells known (as a sorcerer) or because the spell is unavailable to you (as a wizard). An example of the latter would be a spell which would require great time to research (and it's a fast-moving campaign), or a spell which is "secret" knowledge (which again, you could theoretically research if you had enough time and resources). The "Extra Spell" feat is not the magical equivalent of the "Expanded Knowledge" psionic feat.
J.B. 03-14-05, 01:59 AM	Actually the "Extra Spell" feat does let you have access to spells not on your spell list. Originally I didn't think this, but then I read one of the free, online, DnD adventures (Tarth Morda) and found one of the characters, an NPC Suel Arcanamach (who casts like a sorcerer), using the above-mentioned feat to get "Hail of Stone" and "Accuracy" as two of his known-spells.
runestar 03-14-05, 05:17 AM	Is that NPC the warmage? Hail of stones is a 1st lv sor.wiz spell, so its legit for extra spell. Not sure what accuracy does so can't comment on it.
J.B. 03-14-05, 11:16 PM	Normally I'ld agree with you, (I realize "Hail of Stones" is a sor/wiz spell in "Players Guide to Faerun" which refers back to the "Underdark" book), but they don't present it as such in the Complete Arcane. You'll notice it is a Wu Jen and Warmage spell only. Although I admit it is possible that it may have been some kind of oversight, but according to WOTC (or so I'm told) the newer products are supposed to be considered updated versions of the older ones. P.S. - I was incorrect about "Accuracy". It is a sor/wiz spell and I believed the Suel Arcanamach took it in that class.