"Light Off Hand" Weapon Quality [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Light Off Hand" Weapon Quality [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Blakey
02-12-04, 08:37 AM Hi,

I play a fighter who wields two longswords at the moment and I'm suffering from -4 to hit with each weapon (I have two weapon fighting of course). I want to wield two longswords because it's unusual and from a feats point of view I have focus and specialization in longsword so it saves me taking new feats in shortsword for example.

So, what I'm after is a longsword which can be wielded in my off hand, but which counts as a light weapon there, thus reducing my penalty for two weapons to -2/-2.

I'm thinking of a "light off hand" weapon quality which can be added to a magical weapon. Now, importantly, this quality does not change the base size category of a weapon at all. Otherwise adding it to a greatsword would allow you to wield it single handed - far too powerful for what I'm thinking of. It merely, and very specifically, means that a weapon with this quality can be wielded in the off hand when wielding two weapons and counts as light instead of one handed.

So, the question is, how many "pluses" would this add to the cost of a weapon? My gut feeling is just +1 as it would be a completely useless quality unless you wanted to wield two weapons.

But then again my gut feeling is probably biased by the fact that I want this for my character.

Anyone care to comment, please?

Thanks
Blakey
dantedarkstar
02-12-04, 09:20 AM I would probably allow "Light" enhancement of +1.

It would however, make one-handed weapon a light weapon for all intents and purposes.

You could use Weapon Finesse with it, wouldn't suffer that big penalties for 2-weapon fighting and all, but on the other hand you couldn't wield it in 2 hands for more Str damage, nor could you benefit from Power Attack with that weapon.
Krelios
02-12-04, 09:22 AM Doesn't making the item out of mithral allow that? I don't have the books in front of me, but if it reduces the armor category by one level, it might very well do what you need.
Blakey
02-12-04, 09:33 AM dantedarkstar wrote:

I would probably allow "Light" enhancement of +1.

It would however, make one-handed weapon a light weapon for all intents and purposes.

You could use Weapon Finesse with it, wouldn't suffer that big penalties for 2-weapon fighting and all, but on the other hand you couldn't wield it in 2 hands for more Str damage, nor could you benefit from Power Attack with that weapon.

Good point - I like that it has some draw backs, like the restrictions for using with power attack.

Krelios wrote:

Doesn't making the item out of mithral allow that?

Nope, not according to the SRD:

In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed).

Cheers
Blakey
kreynolds
02-12-04, 09:55 AM I've been using this in my games for years, and it works great. Inspired by the Sun Blade (I think that's the one)...

Lightness
These weapons are light and surprisingly easy to wield. A weapon with this ability is wielded as a particular weapon of one category size smaller, though the type of weapon emulation must be chosen. The weapon still deals damage based upon its appearance and form and maintains all statistics of said weapon. Having the proficiency in either type of weapon is sufficient to wield it.
   For example, a longsword could be crafted to be wielded as a shortsword. The weapon would still be treated as a longsword when concerning damage, critical threats, critical hits, damage type (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning), and reach (if applicable). However, the longsword would feel as if it were a shortsword, and would have the same weight as a shortsword, meaning it would be treated in all other aspects as a light weapon. Lightness can only be placed upon melee weapons.
   Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, levitate; Price: +1.

Other spells could easily be used as a prereq in place of levitate. Just pick one that suits your fancy.
KShaver
02-12-04, 10:31 AM You could just take a small longsword for your offhand. It does less damage (d6), and you would receive a -2 to hit with it since it isn't sized for you. You would still get all your longsword feats with it while losing the extra penalties for not having your offhand weapon light.
Sproik
02-12-04, 10:39 AM Originally posted by KShaver
You could just take a small longsword for your offhand. It does less damage (d6), and you would receive a -2 to hit with it since it isn't sized for you. You would still get all your longsword feats with it while losing the extra penalties for not having your offhand weapon light.

Surely you would not get those benefits, the -2 penalty is there because the weapon is awkward to wield and is a different size and weight to the weaopn you are used to!

I don't think I'd let someone use their Weapon Specialisation (Longsword) feat on a weapon that had quite blatantly different characteristics, any more than I'd let them use it with a bastard sword, a shortsword, or a hook fauchard.
KShaver
02-12-04, 12:00 PM Strictly by the rules it works. Its up to the DM to tell you thats too cheesy for his campaign.
adiaven
02-12-04, 12:10 PM shoulda went dual shortswords instead... works so much better (weapon focus, spec, greater focus, no offhand penalty) and you give up an averge of 1 point of damage per hit.

Plus rolling lots of D6s makes me feel like a wizard or rogue :)
tarkin
02-12-04, 12:36 PM I think the +1 Light weapon magical enchantmen is a good idea, but it needs to be re-worded.

I would drop the size references (3.5 not 3.0) and just say it makes a weapon that you can otherwise use as a one handed weapon qualify as Light when used for TWF purposes.
Nick Soapdish
02-12-04, 12:44 PM +1 sounds reasonable to me also. Like you said, it's also got disadvantages and only limited advantages (finessable and two-weapon fighting).
Blakey
02-12-04, 01:33 PM Cheers all!

I'll point my DM at these pages and hopefully he'll agree with a +1 enchantment.

All the best
Blakey
Tony Vargas
02-12-04, 01:50 PM I had a feat for this sort of thing written up for 3.0 ... let's see quick conversion...

Paired Weapon Fighting
You are highly skilled at using a matched pair of weapons, one in each hand.
Pre-Requisites: Weapon Proficiency, Two Weapon Fighting, BAB 2+.
Benefits: Choose one type of one-handed weapon you are proficient with. When using one of these weapons in each hand, you take a reduced Two Weapon Fighting Penalty. If the weapon is one-handed, you take -2 on your attacks. If it is light, you take only -1.
Normally: Fighting with paired weapons is no special advantage.

...but, you asked about an enchantment...

I haven't tried to cleverly reverse-engineer the bastard-sword-counting-as-a-shortsword enchantment of the SunBlade in 3.5, like some folks did under 3.0, but I seem to remember it not coming out to a huge enchantement. So, a +1 for counting a medium weapon as light for purposes of off-hand use is probably reasonable. I don't think a broader sort - that might allow using a two-handed weapon in one hand - would be a good idea, though, as there's a more substantial difference in power between one-handed and two handed than between light and one-handed.
Sproik
02-12-04, 01:55 PM Originally posted by tarkin
I think the +1 Light weapon magical enchantmen is a good idea, but it needs to be re-worded.

I would drop the size references (3.5 not 3.0) and just say it makes a weapon that you can otherwise use as a one handed weapon qualify as Light when used for TWF purposes.

I agree.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blakey 02-12-04, 08:37 AM	Hi, I play a fighter who wields two longswords at the moment and I'm suffering from -4 to hit with each weapon (I have two weapon fighting of course). I want to wield two longswords because it's unusual and from a feats point of view I have focus and specialization in longsword so it saves me taking new feats in shortsword for example. So, what I'm after is a longsword which can be wielded in my off hand, but which counts as a light weapon there, thus reducing my penalty for two weapons to -2/-2. I'm thinking of a "light off hand" weapon quality which can be added to a magical weapon. Now, importantly, this quality does not change the base size category of a weapon at all. Otherwise adding it to a greatsword would allow you to wield it single handed - far too powerful for what I'm thinking of. It merely, and very specifically, means that a weapon with this quality can be wielded in the off hand when wielding two weapons and counts as light instead of one handed. So, the question is, how many "pluses" would this add to the cost of a weapon? My gut feeling is just +1 as it would be a completely useless quality unless you wanted to wield two weapons. But then again my gut feeling is probably biased by the fact that I want this for my character. Anyone care to comment, please? Thanks Blakey
dantedarkstar 02-12-04, 09:20 AM	I would probably allow "Light" enhancement of +1. It would however, make one-handed weapon a light weapon for all intents and purposes. You could use Weapon Finesse with it, wouldn't suffer that big penalties for 2-weapon fighting and all, but on the other hand you couldn't wield it in 2 hands for more Str damage, nor could you benefit from Power Attack with that weapon.
Krelios 02-12-04, 09:22 AM	Doesn't making the item out of mithral allow that? I don't have the books in front of me, but if it reduces the armor category by one level, it might very well do what you need.
Blakey 02-12-04, 09:33 AM	dantedarkstar wrote: I would probably allow "Light" enhancement of +1. It would however, make one-handed weapon a light weapon for all intents and purposes. You could use Weapon Finesse with it, wouldn't suffer that big penalties for 2-weapon fighting and all, but on the other hand you couldn't wield it in 2 hands for more Str damage, nor could you benefit from Power Attack with that weapon. Good point - I like that it has some draw backs, like the restrictions for using with power attack. Krelios wrote: Doesn't making the item out of mithral allow that? Nope, not according to the SRD: In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Cheers Blakey
kreynolds 02-12-04, 09:55 AM	I've been using this in my games for years, and it works great. Inspired by the Sun Blade (I think that's the one)... Lightness These weapons are light and surprisingly easy to wield. A weapon with this ability is wielded as a particular weapon of one category size smaller, though the type of weapon emulation must be chosen. The weapon still deals damage based upon its appearance and form and maintains all statistics of said weapon. Having the proficiency in either type of weapon is sufficient to wield it.    For example, a longsword could be crafted to be wielded as a shortsword. The weapon would still be treated as a longsword when concerning damage, critical threats, critical hits, damage type (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning), and reach (if applicable). However, the longsword would feel as if it were a shortsword, and would have the same weight as a shortsword, meaning it would be treated in all other aspects as a light weapon. Lightness can only be placed upon melee weapons.    Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, levitate; Price: +1. Other spells could easily be used as a prereq in place of levitate. Just pick one that suits your fancy.
KShaver 02-12-04, 10:31 AM	You could just take a small longsword for your offhand. It does less damage (d6), and you would receive a -2 to hit with it since it isn't sized for you. You would still get all your longsword feats with it while losing the extra penalties for not having your offhand weapon light.
Sproik 02-12-04, 10:39 AM	Originally posted by KShaver You could just take a small longsword for your offhand. It does less damage (d6), and you would receive a -2 to hit with it since it isn't sized for you. You would still get all your longsword feats with it while losing the extra penalties for not having your offhand weapon light. Surely you would not get those benefits, the -2 penalty is there because the weapon is awkward to wield and is a different size and weight to the weaopn you are used to! I don't think I'd let someone use their Weapon Specialisation (Longsword) feat on a weapon that had quite blatantly different characteristics, any more than I'd let them use it with a bastard sword, a shortsword, or a hook fauchard.
KShaver 02-12-04, 12:00 PM	Strictly by the rules it works. Its up to the DM to tell you thats too cheesy for his campaign.
adiaven 02-12-04, 12:10 PM	shoulda went dual shortswords instead... works so much better (weapon focus, spec, greater focus, no offhand penalty) and you give up an averge of 1 point of damage per hit. Plus rolling lots of D6s makes me feel like a wizard or rogue :)
tarkin 02-12-04, 12:36 PM	I think the +1 Light weapon magical enchantmen is a good idea, but it needs to be re-worded. I would drop the size references (3.5 not 3.0) and just say it makes a weapon that you can otherwise use as a one handed weapon qualify as Light when used for TWF purposes.
Nick Soapdish 02-12-04, 12:44 PM	+1 sounds reasonable to me also. Like you said, it's also got disadvantages and only limited advantages (finessable and two-weapon fighting).
Blakey 02-12-04, 01:33 PM	Cheers all! I'll point my DM at these pages and hopefully he'll agree with a +1 enchantment. All the best Blakey
Tony Vargas 02-12-04, 01:50 PM	I had a feat for this sort of thing written up for 3.0 ... let's see quick conversion... Paired Weapon Fighting You are highly skilled at using a matched pair of weapons, one in each hand. Pre-Requisites: Weapon Proficiency, Two Weapon Fighting, BAB 2+. Benefits: Choose one type of one-handed weapon you are proficient with. When using one of these weapons in each hand, you take a reduced Two Weapon Fighting Penalty. If the weapon is one-handed, you take -2 on your attacks. If it is light, you take only -1. Normally: Fighting with paired weapons is no special advantage. ...but, you asked about an enchantment... I haven't tried to cleverly reverse-engineer the bastard-sword-counting-as-a-shortsword enchantment of the SunBlade in 3.5, like some folks did under 3.0, but I seem to remember it not coming out to a huge enchantement. So, a +1 for counting a medium weapon as light for purposes of off-hand use is probably reasonable. I don't think a broader sort - that might allow using a two-handed weapon in one hand - would be a good idea, though, as there's a more substantial difference in power between one-handed and two handed than between light and one-handed.
Sproik 02-12-04, 01:55 PM	Originally posted by tarkin I think the +1 Light weapon magical enchantmen is a good idea, but it needs to be re-worded. I would drop the size references (3.5 not 3.0) and just say it makes a weapon that you can otherwise use as a one handed weapon qualify as Light when used for TWF purposes. I agree.