Post/Author/DateTime	Post
box_goblin 10-17-07, 06:55 PM	Had a question that someone might have some insight: Is there a published guideline or rule around how many levels above the 'base' spell a 'mass' version should be? For some (like the Cure spells) it is 4 levels higher - however there are cases, such as Aid, Mass and Resist Energy, Mass where the spell is only one level higher. This question was recently posed to our DM, and I was hoping to help find a good answer/solution for him to apply to unpublished "mass" versions on spells. Thanks in advance for any input/advice/insight!
solbergb 10-17-07, 07:46 PM	WOTC doesn't seem to know, as I've seen variations from +1 level to +4 levels but I would use chain spell as the guideline. +3 levels. See "lightning bolt vs chain lightning" I've had some experience with the chain spell metamagic feat and it's useful without being overpowered. +3 levels is about right.
Wih 10-17-07, 09:35 PM	It ranges from +1 or +2 (resist energy, snowshoes etc) to +4 (like Death Ward). Generally, the more combat-heavy the spell, the bigger the adjustment. If it's a utility spell (esp. with a longer duration) it's a smaller adjustment. I'd advise not to look for a Mass Metamagic feat, but instead research the spells independantly, or take the Chain and Reach metamagic feats (letting anything touch or with a range be cast on multiple allies).
sigma999 10-18-07, 04:04 AM	Use Chain Spell.
box_goblin 10-18-07, 04:22 AM	I appreciate the suggested use of Chain Spell - it however requires a feat, and only works on spells with a range. Plenty of the spells that could be turned into a Mass version don't have that - which leaves that option lacking on two counts which is I think, a bit too much to accept as "the" solution. I just wish there was some discernible rhyme or reason to the level increase applied to these spells, but in looking them over it eludes me. Spells that appear to be able to be used with the Chain Spell feat follow that 3 levels above model with some consistency; The cure and stat-buff spells all seem to be 4 levels up; Resist energy and Aid each only require one level higher... So, my thinking would be something like Shield of Faith would follow the Buff model, and be 4 levels up; whereas something like Neutralize poison might follow Resist Energy and only be 1 up?
solbergb 10-18-07, 10:27 AM	Chain spell can't be used as a substitute on spell research, as it has very specific requirements spell must have "target" entry spell must have range greater than touch The vast majority of spells don't pass that. As an example, Unseen Servant is an "effect" not "targeted" This one started at +4 (servant horde in complete arcane), then they lowered to +3 in races of destiny (mass unseen servant) then to +2 (servant horde in spell compendium). Having used servant horde, I actually think Races of Destiny got it right. It's very powerful in terms of action replacement as a level 3 spell. Mass spells need range and area, but for some reason, touch spells don't tend to get bumped more than +3 (except the cure spells). Frankly I think the +1 spells are too low and probably +2 is too low as well, but if you think +3 is too high, +2 is ok.
Pitiless_Interfector 10-18-07, 04:46 PM	What spells are you thinking of modifying? Look, I know all-purpose guidelines are cool and stuff, but let's face it, you're probably not intending to Mass every spell there ever was or ever will be. So please, tell us what you're trying to do and we'll help you.
Grod_The_Giant 10-18-07, 05:45 PM	mass fireball!