Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aristulous 05-18-04, 11:54 PM	Probably a good spell for Half-Orcs (perhaps some players I know too) but I was wondering if such a spell exists in any of the official or 3rd party books like AEG? I have a 7th level Wizard who just took a level in Cleric. My goal is to make him a 3rd level cleric so I will be able to cast Silence 15' radius with his Improved Invisibilty spell. I want to make myself hard to detect by animal types too. Hmmm seems like this would be a Druid spell or something. Any input would be appreciated.
smrtgmp 05-18-04, 11:57 PM	I would suggest a buffed up inisibility clone that made you undetectable to sight, smell, and hearing. Just my 2cp edit: I havent seen a core spell that does what you are looking for. However, hide from dragons in the Draconomicon would probably be a good base
Eldren 05-19-04, 01:09 AM	I can think of several gaming sessions where such a spell would be useful after a couple of players have had some deep-fried food or chili... *shudder*
sparkster4242 05-19-04, 01:18 AM	Prestidigitation is listed as being able to flavor food, i think an air-freshener effect is well within its capabilities. Pass without trace (druid 1, ranger 1) looks good too, even if it doesnt hide your scent where you _are_, only where you _were_. i would have no trouble allowing a 1st-level spell to conceal your location from being detected by scent.
smrtgmp 05-19-04, 01:21 AM	Originally posted by sparkster4242 i would have no trouble allowing a 1st-level spell to conceal your location from being detected by scent. I would. Scent is one of the primary things that can overcome invisibility. I dont see how masking the ability to smell is any less powerful than masking sight. It should be at least 2nd level.
ovatto 05-19-04, 07:32 AM	Actually there is a "remove scent" spell on the wizards site (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20021025a) that does exactly that and it is 1st level. Not that I'm saying you should allow this but just so that you know... ;)
Seeker95 05-19-04, 09:37 AM	Originally posted by smrtgmp I would. Scent is one of the primary things that can overcome invisibility. I dont see how masking the ability to smell is any less powerful than masking sight. It should be at least 2nd level. There is a difference between removing the ability to smell from another creature (akin to blindness/deafness) and removing any scent from your own body. I would allow prestidigitation to *change* your odor (a la perfume) and allow the remove scent spell to eliminate any odor from yourself completely. As an aside, I would change blindness/deafness to blindness/deafness/scent-less to encompass the three primary means of "environment awareness" -- since you only get to pick one sense per casting.
Aristulous 05-19-04, 12:30 PM	Hmm interesting input. You guys never fail to impress... I will print out some of the links and copy the info from the various sources listed and bring this up with my DM. This one looks promising... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20021025a Remove Scent Illusion (Glamer) Level: Brd 1, Rgr 1, Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 action Range: Touch Area: Creature touched Duration: 10 minutes/level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object) The creature or object touched has all trace of an olfactory presence removed for the duration of the spell. The scent ability cannot detect a creature under the effects of a remove scent spell. It also negates the harmful side effects of the noxious stench exuded by certain creatures, such as ghasts, for the duration of the spell. Material Components: A pinch of unscented candle wax.
Seeker95 05-19-04, 03:26 PM	Originally posted by Aristulous Remove Scent Illusion (Glamer) Level: Brd 1, Rgr 1, Sor/Wiz 1 It also negates the harmful side effects of the noxious stench exuded by certain creatures, such as ghasts, for the duration of the spell.For 1st level, I would amend this last sentence to read: ***** When cast on certain creatures with noxious stench attacks (like ghasts, etc.) this spell will suppress these attacks for the duration of the spell. (Note, making the touch attack may carry its own consequences!) This spell will not remove the effects of such attacks after they have occured. ***** This is to remove any confusion that this spell could reverse the effects of stench.
smrtgmp 05-19-04, 04:45 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 There is a difference between removing the ability to smell from another creature (akin to blindness/deafness) and removing any scent from your own body. I would allow prestidigitation to *change* your odor (a la perfume) and allow the remove scent spell to eliminate any odor from yourself completely. As an aside, I would change blindness/deafness to blindness/deafness/scent-less to encompass the three primary means of "environment awareness" -- since you only get to pick one sense per casting. I still think a spell that effectively mimics invisibility but against a different sence should be the same level as invisibility.
Aristulous 05-19-04, 09:15 PM	Originally posted by smrtgmp should be the same level as invisibility. Hmmm another good point. My DM did email me back and said he was comfortable going with the spell as listed in the 1st level format.
Seeker95 05-19-04, 11:50 PM	Originally posted by smrtgmp I still think a spell that effectively mimics invisibility but against a different sence should be the same level as invisibility. I understand where you're coming from, but think in terms of prevalence as well as effect. Cold-based spells tend to be of a higher level than fire based spells, even if they do the exact same amount of damage. Why? Fire-immune creatures are more prevalent. Invisibility is a 3rd level spell. It protects against the most commonly used detection sense --> sight. Silence is a second level spell. It protects against the second most commonly used detection sense --> hearing. So... scent, being much less common of a detection sense, would be more easily protected against. Therefor, remove scent could easily be a first level spell.
smrtgmp 05-19-04, 11:56 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 Invisibility is a 3rd level spell. Um.. its actually 2nd level. I stand by my above statements. Dogs are regularly employed to sniff out invisible interlopers. This spell would completely nullify that. Thats why I think it should be 2nd level. However, sice its on the main page (and since the players DM OK'd it) my opinion is of little meaning.
Seeker95 05-19-04, 11:58 PM	I stand corrected, and reverse my argument. 2nd level it is (even if it isn't!)
Archtyrant Terevoth 05-20-04, 02:19 AM	I personalyl wouldn't allow something like that, because it makes invisibility too powerful. Improved invisibility is already a damn powerful spell, and one of the few counters nonmagicals have against it is scent. Whether its a wolf with scent or humanoids with a guard dog, scent is something you rely on to beat invisibility. I'd allow maybe a 7th level spell to act as invisibility without scent, but a 1st level spell which negates all scent is pretty ridiculous IMO. It just begs people to abuse invisibility.
Aristulous 05-20-04, 08:09 AM	Originally posted by Archtyrant Terevoth I personalyl wouldn't allow something like that, because it makes invisibility too powerful. Improved invisibility is already a damn powerful spell, and one of the few counters nonmagicals have against it is scent. Whether its a wolf with scent or humanoids with a guard dog, scent is something you rely on to beat invisibility. I'd allow maybe a 7th level spell to act as invisibility without scent, but a 1st level spell which negates all scent is pretty ridiculous IMO. It just begs people to abuse invisibility. Hmmm... it will be interesting. My next FEAT I'm taking is "Extend Spell" (doubles spell duration) as listed in the PHB 3.5 pg 94. This will be a powerful combo: Stone Skin (Wiz 4th) Improved Invisibilty (Wiz 4) Fly (Wiz 3) Silence (Clr 2) Remove Scent (Wiz 1) Add Extend Spell Feat to the mix... gonna create some Havok It will be fun to use once or twice before the DM probably nerfs it..<evil grin>.
Seeker95 05-20-04, 11:15 AM	I think you are over-estimating the power of invisibility. Even with all of those non-detection spells in place, you are likely to leave footprints, or cause a change in temperature as you move by. And if it is so that you can attack, doing that only gives you concealment. Your opponents will still get to attack you, and just have a 50% miss chance if they hit. Being invisible is useful. It is not the be-all of utility. If you are going to put these spells up, your DM should reward you for creativity. And let you walk into the AMF foyer of the next BBEG you go up against. :smirk:
Aranael 05-20-04, 11:55 AM	Originally posted by Seeker95 I think you are over-estimating the power of invisibility. Even with all of those non-detection spells in place, you are likely to leave footprints, or cause a change in temperature as you move by. And if it is so that you can attack, doing that only gives you concealment. Your opponents will still get to attack you, and just have a 50% miss chance if they hit. Being invisible is useful. It is not the be-all of utility. If you are going to put these spells up, your DM should reward you for creativity. And let you walk into the AMF foyer of the next BBEG you go up against. :smirk: True, though you have to admit- couple that with Mind Blank, Pass Without Trace (to handle footprints) and some other spell to handle heat (I know they must Surely have one for the underdark, if not anywhere else, point being it exists I'm positive), and voila. Only True Seeing can detect you, or AMF spoiling your fun, and that is (if nothing else) just flat out cool. Maybe I just like the idea of combinations with passwall etc, sneaking into an incredibly guarded place, taking something, and literally no one even having a Chance to know about it. More Rogue-ish, true, but people have always said Wizards make some of the best Rogues.... Also, they have to know where you are, first. With no melee attacks, as I somehow doubt a wizard based char would have, it is hard enough to do that, especially with no chance to locate based on listen checks. Move around a little, and it's more like 1/10 hits the right square at all, and Then 50% miss chance. Hehe could you imagine, using only long-range spells with divination magic to see more clearly where you're aiming?? 400+ feet away, raining down death, completely undetectable (from their perspective for the first many rounds, you just don't exist, and the attacks are impossible, leading to mass confusion and dischord, as well as having no way to detect the attacker (invisibility purge doesn't have near the range to reach, nor AMF, nor True Seeing, nor even MDJ.... and as for spot? Well, you have +40 to Hide, based on being invisible and immobile. They have -40 to spot, based on distance. All I can say is, they'd have to be REALLY good at spot...) if you're in the air, too, they just run around blindly trying to reach you, you wait for them to pass, repeat, things just go REALLY amusingly.... I think I really need to set that up for myself, against an opposing army. And Meteor Swarm just went up a notch in my book, too. Wow, that's awesome... The point being, I think it has potential at least... perhaps it's just me, but I think that (though doing nothing But working on this combo is a bad idea) you can have significant enough amounts of fun to make this worthwhile, and if your DM is smart, they'll be fine, and not do all in their power to neutralize forever your ability to do this, making you having wasted this effort, but at the same time preventing brokenness. Best of luck to you.
Mahali Audran 05-20-04, 02:18 PM	In one of the splat books there is IIRC "Scent Breaker". An item you throw on the ground to confuse a tracker. I'd go with a 1st lvl spell to block scent. A lot more monsters use eyes instead of noses to find people.
Aristulous 05-20-04, 03:17 PM	if you're in the air, too, they just run around blindly trying to reach you, Yea.. I'm gonna have fun with this combo. My character can also cast FLY and Stone-skin. Hmm Seeker95 does bring up a good point with body heat... but I think concealing that is a bit of overkill. It would be amusing if there was such a spell. "Remove Body Heat" <grin>. My Spellcaster Prodigy FEAT grants me a 20 Int. Powerful combo: Stone Skin (Wiz 4th) Improved Invisibilty (Wiz 4) Fly (Wiz 3) Silence (Clr 2) Remove Scent (Wiz 1) Very deadly to most "sight/smell-based" monsters. Flying about at 60'/rd with Spell Based Range attacks... ouch that's just gotta help the Melee Fighters. Easy flanking bonuses... lightening bolt... etc I envision "flak" glitterdust spells... <chuckles> <sighs> Cant wait til I make 3rd level Cleric