"Start/finish full-round action" & spells with 1-round casting time [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Start/finish full-round action" & spells with 1-round casting time [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
aser
12-05-06, 05:38 AM Normally effects of a spell with 1-round casting time comes into effect just before the beginning of caster's turn in the next round (PHB 3.5, p. 143). But how is it handled if the caster choose to use an option to "start/finish full-round action"?

PHB 3.5, p. 174: "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action"

PHB 3.5, p. 142: "The 'start full-round action' standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action".

So, if caster starts to cast a spell with casting time 1 round as a standard action in round #1, and finishes to cast the spell as a standard action in round #2, when will the spell come into effect? Just after caster's standard action in round #2? Just after caster's move-equivalent action in round #2? Or just before the caster's action in round #3?

A related question about calling spells. The spell Lesser Planar Exchange (Spell Compendium p. 159) has a casting time 1 round. If the caster uses "start/finish full-round action" to cast this spell, how much actions does a called creature have after it appears? Does it have only a standard action, or only a move-equivalent action, or both? What if the spell is casted with the feat "rapid spell" (Complete Divine p. 84), so that the casting time is changed to 1 full-round action?
Harliquinn
12-05-06, 09:02 AM Normally effects of a spell with 1-round casting time comes into effect just before the beginning of caster's turn in the next round (PHB 3.5, p. 143). But how is it handled if the caster choose to use an option to "start/finish full-round action"?

PHB 3.5, p. 174: "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action"

PHB 3.5, p. 142: "The 'start full-round action' standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action".

So, if caster starts to cast a spell with casting time 1 round as a standard action in round #1, and finishes to cast the spell as a standard action in round #2, when will the spell come into effect? Just after caster's standard action in round #2? Just after caster's move-equivalent action in round #2? Or just before the caster's action in round #3?

A related question about calling spells. The spell Lesser Planar Exchange (Spell Compendium p. 159) has a casting time 1 round. If the caster uses "start/finish full-round action" to cast this spell, how much actions does a called creature have after it appears? Does it have only a standard action, or only a move-equivalent action, or both? What if the spell is casted with the feat "rapid spell" (Complete Divine p. 84), so that the casting time is changed to 1 full-round action?

Answer 1: The spell would come into effect after the standard action in round #2 and before the caster took their move-equivalent action. This is 'just before the beginning of the caster's next turn' since their standard action is already committed (if they choose to use it for completing the full round).

Answer 2: A summoned or called creature acts on your turn (your initiative order), but gets a full round when summoned. It doesn't matter when during your turn the casting is finished as long as its still your turn.

Harliquinn
Traevanon
12-05-06, 09:29 AM The 1-round spell comes into effect in round #3 of your sequence just before you go.

Normal Sequence:
Round 1: Cast Full Round Spell (Full)
Round 2: Full Round Spell comes into effect, take actions.

New Sequence:
Round 1: Move (move), Begin casting (standard)
Round 2: Finish Casting (standard), move (move)
Round 3: Full Round Spell comes into effect, take actions.

Or:
Round 1: Begin casting (standard), move (move)
Round 2: Move (move), Finish Casting (standard)
Round 3: Full Round Spell comes into effect, take actions.

...as far as I can tell.
Sildatorak
12-05-06, 01:08 PM I'd agree with Harliquinn on this one. You still are interruptable for the same amount of time and still suffer the normal penalties for splitting up a full-round action into 2 rounds (i.e. you lose out on a 5' step and turn 1 standard action into a move action). It shouldn't matter that the critter is popping into being in the middle of your turn instead of at the beginning.
SALDAR
12-05-06, 05:30 PM Answer 1: The spell would come into effect after the standard action in round #2 and before the caster took their move-equivalent action. This is 'just before the beginning of the caster's next turn' since their standard action is already committed (if they choose to use it for completing the full round).
The "caster's next turn", not the caster's next action. In round 2 you have already begun your next turn by using your standard action for the round to finish casting your spell. So the beginning of you next turn comes in round 3.
RavenDrake
12-05-06, 06:17 PM Note that I don't agree with that interpretation. The proper quote is:

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into
effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you
began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is
completed.

This is written assuming that you cast the spell as a standard full round action. Casting a full round action spell as two standard actions with the Start/finish a full round action ability would mean that the spell will activate as soon as the casting is completed, which would be directly after your "Finish a full round action" standard action in round 2.

Remember that you're sacrificing two standard actions to achieve this result. Also, as far as I'm concearned, you can take your move actions for both rounds either before or after the standard action since it isn't specified when you would HAVE to take them in the "Start/Complete" section.
SALDAR
12-06-06, 05:10 PM This is written assuming that you cast the spell as a standard full round action. Casting a full round action spell as two standard actions with the Start/finish a full round action ability would mean that the spell will activate as soon as the casting is completed, which would be directly after your "Finish a full round action" standard action in round 2.

Remember that you're sacrificing two standard actions to achieve this result. Also, as far as I'm concearned, you can take your move actions for both rounds either before or after the standard action since it isn't specified when you would HAVE to take them in the "Start/Complete" section.

That is the assumption, you begin and end casting in the same round. There is nothing about the Start/Finish that changes what is stated in the quote above. You are still casting the spell as a standard full round action, which is a single continuous action. You can do nothing else while casting the spell, such as move, nor does it actually break a 1 round casting time into 2 standard actions. You begin casting in round 1 and continue casting in round 2 and the spell takes effect before your turn in the next round. That is not possible in round 2 because you are not finished casting the spell until you are into your turn in this round. It takes effect before your turn, not during your turn.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aser 12-05-06, 05:38 AM	Normally effects of a spell with 1-round casting time comes into effect just before the beginning of caster's turn in the next round (PHB 3.5, p. 143). But how is it handled if the caster choose to use an option to "start/finish full-round action"? PHB 3.5, p. 174: "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action" PHB 3.5, p. 142: "The 'start full-round action' standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action". So, if caster starts to cast a spell with casting time 1 round as a standard action in round #1, and finishes to cast the spell as a standard action in round #2, when will the spell come into effect? Just after caster's standard action in round #2? Just after caster's move-equivalent action in round #2? Or just before the caster's action in round #3? A related question about calling spells. The spell Lesser Planar Exchange (Spell Compendium p. 159) has a casting time 1 round. If the caster uses "start/finish full-round action" to cast this spell, how much actions does a called creature have after it appears? Does it have only a standard action, or only a move-equivalent action, or both? What if the spell is casted with the feat "rapid spell" (Complete Divine p. 84), so that the casting time is changed to 1 full-round action?
Harliquinn 12-05-06, 09:02 AM	Normally effects of a spell with 1-round casting time comes into effect just before the beginning of caster's turn in the next round (PHB 3.5, p. 143). But how is it handled if the caster choose to use an option to "start/finish full-round action"? PHB 3.5, p. 174: "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action" PHB 3.5, p. 142: "The 'start full-round action' standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action". So, if caster starts to cast a spell with casting time 1 round as a standard action in round #1, and finishes to cast the spell as a standard action in round #2, when will the spell come into effect? Just after caster's standard action in round #2? Just after caster's move-equivalent action in round #2? Or just before the caster's action in round #3? A related question about calling spells. The spell Lesser Planar Exchange (Spell Compendium p. 159) has a casting time 1 round. If the caster uses "start/finish full-round action" to cast this spell, how much actions does a called creature have after it appears? Does it have only a standard action, or only a move-equivalent action, or both? What if the spell is casted with the feat "rapid spell" (Complete Divine p. 84), so that the casting time is changed to 1 full-round action? Answer 1: The spell would come into effect after the standard action in round #2 and before the caster took their move-equivalent action. This is 'just before the beginning of the caster's next turn' since their standard action is already committed (if they choose to use it for completing the full round). Answer 2: A summoned or called creature acts on your turn (your initiative order), but gets a full round when summoned. It doesn't matter when during your turn the casting is finished as long as its still your turn. Harliquinn
Traevanon 12-05-06, 09:29 AM	The 1-round spell comes into effect in round #3 of your sequence just before you go. Normal Sequence: Round 1: Cast Full Round Spell (Full) Round 2: Full Round Spell comes into effect, take actions. New Sequence: Round 1: Move (move), Begin casting (standard) Round 2: Finish Casting (standard), move (move) Round 3: Full Round Spell comes into effect, take actions. Or: Round 1: Begin casting (standard), move (move) Round 2: Move (move), Finish Casting (standard) Round 3: Full Round Spell comes into effect, take actions. ...as far as I can tell.
Sildatorak 12-05-06, 01:08 PM	I'd agree with Harliquinn on this one. You still are interruptable for the same amount of time and still suffer the normal penalties for splitting up a full-round action into 2 rounds (i.e. you lose out on a 5' step and turn 1 standard action into a move action). It shouldn't matter that the critter is popping into being in the middle of your turn instead of at the beginning.
SALDAR 12-05-06, 05:30 PM	Answer 1: The spell would come into effect after the standard action in round #2 and before the caster took their move-equivalent action. This is 'just before the beginning of the caster's next turn' since their standard action is already committed (if they choose to use it for completing the full round). The "caster's next turn", not the caster's next action. In round 2 you have already begun your next turn by using your standard action for the round to finish casting your spell. So the beginning of you next turn comes in round 3.
RavenDrake 12-05-06, 06:17 PM	Note that I don't agree with that interpretation. The proper quote is: A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed. This is written assuming that you cast the spell as a standard full round action. Casting a full round action spell as two standard actions with the Start/finish a full round action ability would mean that the spell will activate as soon as the casting is completed, which would be directly after your "Finish a full round action" standard action in round 2. Remember that you're sacrificing two standard actions to achieve this result. Also, as far as I'm concearned, you can take your move actions for both rounds either before or after the standard action since it isn't specified when you would HAVE to take them in the "Start/Complete" section.
SALDAR 12-06-06, 05:10 PM	This is written assuming that you cast the spell as a standard full round action. Casting a full round action spell as two standard actions with the Start/finish a full round action ability would mean that the spell will activate as soon as the casting is completed, which would be directly after your "Finish a full round action" standard action in round 2. Remember that you're sacrificing two standard actions to achieve this result. Also, as far as I'm concearned, you can take your move actions for both rounds either before or after the standard action since it isn't specified when you would HAVE to take them in the "Start/Complete" section. That is the assumption, you begin and end casting in the same round. There is nothing about the Start/Finish that changes what is stated in the quote above. You are still casting the spell as a standard full round action, which is a single continuous action. You can do nothing else while casting the spell, such as move, nor does it actually break a 1 round casting time into 2 standard actions. You begin casting in round 1 and continue casting in round 2 and the spell takes effect before your turn in the next round. That is not possible in round 2 because you are not finished casting the spell until you are into your turn in this round. It takes effect before your turn, not during your turn.