Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lassar 07-01-05, 10:17 AM	Hi guys, I have kind of special question today... Last week we fought a Horned Devil which had a leather string attached to his arm. The leather string kept kind of a small brass ball or something. Now the question: I wanted to rip the leather string with telekinesis or to "bull rush" the sphere what would rip the leather strong, and throw the sphere away. Any idae of rules for that? Basically we ruled that I had to make an strength check to rip the string (DC 25 I think - well I failed, wasn't hard). Do you think that was ok? Any other ideas how one could rule that, or ideas how to get the sphere away from such an enemy (without coming to close? I am still a vulnerable wizard :-) thanks!
WombleHunter 07-01-05, 11:03 AM	Telekinesis can be used to perform other combat options, such as Disarm. Read the Disarm section under the spell and in the PHB.
Jaid 07-01-05, 11:03 AM	well, there's a spell that makes the target walk up to you and give you one item =P there's also a spell that creates an unseen servant type critter that can pick pockets ;) you could also use a weaponlike spell to sunder the string (shouldn't be too hard). for example, mordenkainen's sword (or a weaker version thereof), spiritual weapon, etc. of course, iirc, you can only sunder on a melee attack (i could be wrong on that though), so you would have to make it an animated weapon type spell. if you were a psion you could time hop it =D
mbfu3k 07-01-05, 11:13 AM	Attended objects get a Will save at their bonus or the attending creatures, whichever is higher. If it fails, I'd say the several hundred pounds that Telekinesis can exert should be plenty to snap a small leather cord. Note that a 1 inch diameter hemp rope only has a break DC of 23. I'd say a small leather cord probably has a DC somewhere around 15. If you do end up needing to make a Strength check in addition to the Will save, what Strength modifier would you use? Obviously not yours, as the spell has its own "Strength." I'd say the Telekinesis probably has a Strength score of around 23 (to be able to carry 250 to 375 pounds as a "medium load"), so it would get a +6 to the break check. Alternatively, you could perhaps resolve it as a disarm attempt.
solbergb 07-01-05, 01:30 PM	The right mechanic is the disarm maneuver if you are using TK. Not a will save, but your attack mod vs theirs. there is a sustained force option with TK, which uses a will save on attended objects but they can just "hang on" and get dragged around with it. One is using TK to generate a force that does the equivalent of rapping the weapon sharply and twisting with a rapier to get it to fly free. The other is using TK to do the equivalent of "I directly manipulate an attended object" which allows a will save but BAB+attribute mods don't enter into it. For break DC's, TK has a strength equal to the int or charisma of the caster (at least when used for combat maneuvers...breaking a leather thong via the sustained force option seems similar). So a 20 charisma sorcerer would have about a 50/50 chance to make a break DC of 15, assuming the guy who owns the object didn't make his will save.
Caterane 07-01-05, 04:57 PM	Will save for held posessions only, Disarm for items worn or held, with exceptions like rings (who'd need a pin first).