Animal Companion's BAB and Multiattack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal Companion's BAB and Multiattack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DragonX10^9
04-13-04, 05:01 AM Just a quick question for a druid character I'm working on. When the companion's HD gets high enough for a +6/+1 BAB, how does this affect multiattack? Since the animal has three natural weapons/attacks (bite, 2 claws), does this mean I bite twice and claw twice, or bite once and claw three times...? Or is it just three attacks (one bite with the +6 and two claws with the +1), still?
Inigo Carmine
04-13-04, 07:44 AM excluding multi-attack, you don't get iterative attacks with natural weapons due to high BAB. If the attack progression is bite, 2 claws, this does not change when BAB reaches +6, the overall attack bonus just goes up.

multiattack reduces the penalty for the second attacks. Instead of the attack being: bite (+6), 2 claws (+1), it is now: (+6), 2 claws (+4).
Thorak
04-13-04, 08:43 AM As Inigo said; with natural weapons, you get one attack per natural weapon. You don't get iterative attacks based on your BAB. You get that attack at the full BAB for the primary natural weapon, and at a -5 for the secondary ones. Multiattack reduces this -5 penalty to -2.
DragonX10^9
04-13-04, 02:49 PM Aha, thanks guys. I knew that seemed a bit weird.
vampeel
04-13-04, 09:49 PM How about if we take an animal with a simplier attack like a wolf that only has a single bite attack, and from being a druid companion its BAB is +6. So does it just get one bite attack at BAB +6 or could it get bite at +6 and another at +1 (maybe taking the multi-attack feat)?
Thorak
04-13-04, 10:09 PM If you had a Humongo-Dire-Insanity wolf from the depths of the Abyss with a BAB of +135, if it only has a single bite attack for natural weapons, it gets only one attack with that natural weapon. No iterative attacks. Regardless of BAB.
Inigo Carmine
04-13-04, 10:26 PM Ah, forgot the part about it being an animal companion...

From the SRD
Multiattack: An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty.

As a special case, if an animal companion gains multi-attack due to his animal companion advancement, but only has a single natural weapon, he gets a single extra attack with it at a -5 penalty to that attack.

This is a special case of the animal gaining it through his animal companion advancement. I would not allow this special alternative if it was just taken as the feat normally is.

That being said, it only offers a single additional attack, not multiple attacks based on BAB, so even if Thorak's Wolf of Insanity was your animal companion and got this ability, he would make 2 attacks; one at +135/+130.
sparkster4242
04-14-04, 02:14 AM i was always under the impression that a creature, animal or otherwise, could use either its natural-attack routine (if it has one), or its iterative attack routine, but not combine them in the same full-attack action.

that mysterious animal mentioned earlier could use its natural attack routine, and never get more than (bite, 2 claws), regardless of its BAB.

_or_ it could choose one weapon, and use its iterative attacks with it. it could use its other weapons in addition, but would take all the same TWF/MWF penalties a normal character would. The wolf would be better off with this option, in many cases.
Thorak
04-14-04, 07:56 AM My understanding is that, when using natural weapons, you use the natural weapon rules. When you're using manufactured weapons, you use iterative attacks. Most animals with natural weapons can't use manufactured ones at all, and therefore can't ever have iterative attacks. Relevant part of the SRD: Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons
There's no choice there. If you're using natural weapons, you don't get extra iterative attacks from BAB. Cut and dried.

Example; the Balor, according to the SRD, gets 4 iterative attacks with his Flaming Sword, and 2 with his Flaming Whip. Or 2 slams. If he could do iterative attacks with his slams, I see no reason why a Balor would ever NOT do so. They provide his natural weapon attacks as they're supposed to be; without iterative attacks.

Though I admit I didn't notice the second attack animal companions get eventually. Good catch, Inigo.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonX10^9 04-13-04, 05:01 AM	Just a quick question for a druid character I'm working on. When the companion's HD gets high enough for a +6/+1 BAB, how does this affect multiattack? Since the animal has three natural weapons/attacks (bite, 2 claws), does this mean I bite twice and claw twice, or bite once and claw three times...? Or is it just three attacks (one bite with the +6 and two claws with the +1), still?
Inigo Carmine 04-13-04, 07:44 AM	excluding multi-attack, you don't get iterative attacks with natural weapons due to high BAB. If the attack progression is bite, 2 claws, this does not change when BAB reaches +6, the overall attack bonus just goes up. multiattack reduces the penalty for the second attacks. Instead of the attack being: bite (+6), 2 claws (+1), it is now: (+6), 2 claws (+4).
Thorak 04-13-04, 08:43 AM	As Inigo said; with natural weapons, you get one attack per natural weapon. You don't get iterative attacks based on your BAB. You get that attack at the full BAB for the primary natural weapon, and at a -5 for the secondary ones. Multiattack reduces this -5 penalty to -2.
DragonX10^9 04-13-04, 02:49 PM	Aha, thanks guys. I knew that seemed a bit weird.
vampeel 04-13-04, 09:49 PM	How about if we take an animal with a simplier attack like a wolf that only has a single bite attack, and from being a druid companion its BAB is +6. So does it just get one bite attack at BAB +6 or could it get bite at +6 and another at +1 (maybe taking the multi-attack feat)?
Thorak 04-13-04, 10:09 PM	If you had a Humongo-Dire-Insanity wolf from the depths of the Abyss with a BAB of +135, if it only has a single bite attack for natural weapons, it gets only one attack with that natural weapon. No iterative attacks. Regardless of BAB.
Inigo Carmine 04-13-04, 10:26 PM	Ah, forgot the part about it being an animal companion... From the SRD Multiattack: An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty. As a special case, if an animal companion gains multi-attack due to his animal companion advancement, but only has a single natural weapon, he gets a single extra attack with it at a -5 penalty to that attack. This is a special case of the animal gaining it through his animal companion advancement. I would not allow this special alternative if it was just taken as the feat normally is. That being said, it only offers a single additional attack, not multiple attacks based on BAB, so even if Thorak's Wolf of Insanity was your animal companion and got this ability, he would make 2 attacks; one at +135/+130.
sparkster4242 04-14-04, 02:14 AM	i was always under the impression that a creature, animal or otherwise, could use either its natural-attack routine (if it has one), or its iterative attack routine, but not combine them in the same full-attack action. that mysterious animal mentioned earlier could use its natural attack routine, and never get more than (bite, 2 claws), regardless of its BAB. _or_ it could choose one weapon, and use its iterative attacks with it. it could use its other weapons in addition, but would take all the same TWF/MWF penalties a normal character would. The wolf would be better off with this option, in many cases.
Thorak 04-14-04, 07:56 AM	My understanding is that, when using natural weapons, you use the natural weapon rules. When you're using manufactured weapons, you use iterative attacks. Most animals with natural weapons can't use manufactured ones at all, and therefore can't ever have iterative attacks. Relevant part of the SRD: Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons There's no choice there. If you're using natural weapons, you don't get extra iterative attacks from BAB. Cut and dried. Example; the Balor, according to the SRD, gets 4 iterative attacks with his Flaming Sword, and 2 with his Flaming Whip. Or 2 slams. If he could do iterative attacks with his slams, I see no reason why a Balor would ever NOT do so. They provide his natural weapon attacks as they're supposed to be; without iterative attacks. Though I admit I didn't notice the second attack animal companions get eventually. Good catch, Inigo.