Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chris7476 03-14-04, 04:57 PM	Animal Growth grants a +8 to Str, +4 to Con, -2 to Dex, and a +2 natural armor bonus. Is this supposed to follow the Size Increase table in the MM on pg. 291? There are a few differences so I'm just wondering which takes precedence. For example, you get a -2 penalty to Dex from AG. But in the MM, if you increase from Huge to Gargantuan, there is no Dex penalty.
The Hanged Man 03-14-04, 05:28 PM	Looks like an oversight to me. I think they forget there were huge animals now. But I think the spell description takes precedence under the stupid source rules. A specific rule for the spell in the PHB should overrule the general rule for increased size in teh MM. I'm thinking about Enlarge Person, in particular.
Seeker95 03-14-04, 06:07 PM	The spell description takes precedence over the spell table. The Monster Manual takes precedence over the Player's Handbook in issues related to Monsters. Creature size is a decidedly Monster Manual issue. From the 3.5 DMG Errata: Errata Rule: Primary Sources When you find a disagreement between two D&D rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct. One example of a primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a table entry. An individual spell description takes precedence when the short description in the beginning of the spells chapter disagrees. Another example of primary vs. secondary sources involves book and topic precedence. The Player’s Handbook, for example, gives all the rules for playing the game, for PC races, and the base class descriptions. If you find something on one of those topics from the Dungeon Master’s Guide or the Monster Manual that disagrees with the Player’s Handbook, you should assume the Player’s Handbook is the primary source. The Dungeon Master’s Guide is the primary source for topics such as magic item descriptions, special material construction rules, and so on. The Monster Manual is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.While the spell gives detailed description of its effects, all of these effects are based on the presumption of a size increase. The rules for size modifiers can be found in different locations throughout the Player's Handbook. The DMG leaves this area untouched. But the Monster Manual contains a specific table (7-1: Creature Sizes).
chris7476 03-14-04, 11:23 PM	While the spell gives detailed description of its effects, all of these effects are based on the presumption of a size increase. The rules for size modifiers can be found in different locations throughout the Player's Handbook. The DMG leaves this area untouched. But the Monster Manual contains a specific table (7-1: Creature Sizes). Umm, ok but I'm still unclear as to what takes precedence, the spell or the MM table. :confused:
Seeker95 03-15-04, 06:48 AM	Originally posted by chris7476 Umm, ok but I'm still unclear as to what takes precedence, the spell or the MM table. :confused: The Monster Manual Table. The text description says that the increase in size results in a move to the next highest size category. It then summarizes what a move to the next highest size category entails. The latter details are associated directly with the size categoy increase. The cause is a size category increase. It leaves out a detail in the consequences. The Monster Manual fully details what a size category increase entails. Use the MM entry to determine what a size category increase means. If there is a discrepancy, use the table. (In fact, the +8 to strength does not apply at all size categories, although it is a safe generalization.)