Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hapycamper 03-13-07, 11:25 PM	In perusing all the spells I could find in my books, I wasn't able to resolve the following: I (a wizard with the craft wonderous item feat) would like to be able to make a toy soldier for the king's son. (or whoever). I figure a small, carved item that can be very limitedly animated for an hour or so a day is perfect. So.... how would I create one? If I can find a spell that would animate a toy soldier, I would be set, because then I could use the various guidelines for making magic items... The closest thing I have found in the books would be to use the spell "Animate Object" and then cast the "permanancy" spell on it. This seems totally overkill for animating a toy figurine. ----------------------------- Anyone know of a 0-level spell that can animate a simple object for a short time? (if you can do a mage hand, animating a cup or toy should be 0-level or 1st level on the outside I would think...)
Loki5654 03-14-07, 12:29 AM	Depending on how your DM feels about prestidigitation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm), go with that (personally, I'd allow it). Otherwise, I suggest Unseen Servant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/unseenServant.htm). Just make it a simple Wonderous Item with X uses/day.
JulesCARV 03-14-07, 01:33 AM	I'd say that it could just be treated as a tiny golem. Something like: Nutcracker Diminutive Construct Hit Dice: 1/2 1d10 (2 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 15 feet (3 squares) Armor class: 16 (+4 size, +2 dexterity) Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-17 Attack: - Full Attack: - Space/Reach: 1 ft/0 ft Special Attacks: - Special Qualities: Construct traits, darkvision 30 ft, Play Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +0 Abilities: Str 1, Dex 14, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1 Skills: - Feats: - Environment: Any Organization: Domesticated Challenge Rating: 1/10 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: - Level Adjustment: - This small wooden toy is obviously crafted with great love and care. Its features seem almost alive. Play (ex): For one hour per day, a nutcracker is capable of performing tricks as if possessing intelligence, based on pre-established routines and algorithms. Playing might include performing dances, running and hiding from a chasing child, or engaging in mock battles with tiny swords with other toys (whether animated or manually manipulated by a child). Construction: A nutcracker's body is crafted from a piece of wood, crafted with a DC 15 craft (woodworking) or craft (sculpting) check. The body costs 10 gp. CL 5th; craft construct, animate rope, unseen servant; Price 500 gp; cost 250 gp + 20 XP
Seeker95 03-14-07, 09:35 AM	So.... how would I create one? If I can find a spell that would animate a toy soldier, I would be set, because then I could use the various guidelines for making magic items... The closest thing I have found in the books would be to use the spell "Animate Object" and then cast the "permanancy" spell on it.When animated, what do you want it to be able to do? If you want it to be self-directing, then it is awakened. If you want it to be directable, then animate object is needed, made permanent. If you want it to just move around, then price it however you want, because it is not truly going to be an "animated object". Like this: Toy Soldier This seemingly ordinary child's toy obeys simple movement commands for up to an hour a day. It cannot attack, speak, or perform complex tasks in any manner. But it can move where told (assuming it can get there), stand at attention, and otherwise participate in a child's world of play. Prerequisites: CL1, Wooden soldier, animate object. Market price: 100gp. (Yes, it is an intentionally expensive toy.)
TheGogmagog 03-14-07, 12:56 PM	When animated, what do you want it to be able to do? If you want it to be self-directing, then it is awakened. If you want it to be directable, then animate object is needed, made permanent. If you want it to just move around, then price it however you want, because it is not truly going to be an "animated object". I agree combined with Loki5654's post. The third option being a true toy, requiring concentration, would be more like prestigination and 100gp would be a minimum price IMHO. If you want it to be more directable but still have no statistics of it's own mage hand or unseen servant might be the base line. If you want it to be able to be directed to accomplish some task, animate object 1/day (2000x lvl 6 x cl 11 / 5) for 11 minutes of animated with 11 small objects (or possibly shuffled into 2 hours of animation with one toy). By that equation comes to 22,000. A little high it seems but the critter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm) would have construct traits, darkvision 60', hardness and possibly either blind or speed. JulesCARV's construct at 500 gp would be a welcome addition to adventuring groups wanting something to keep watch over the group at night. I would think the utility potential would be worth 2,500 minimum. I don't know by what equation you would be able to actually get a number that low.
Hapycamper 03-14-07, 01:29 PM	Everyone has good ideas. The toy soldier is what I'm really looking for. A tiny object with no real game stats (other than able to move and, in a pinch, distract someone like "dancing lights" could...) When animated, what do you want it to be able to do? If you want it to be self-directing, then it is awakened. If you want it to be directable, then animate object is needed, made permanent. If you want it to just move around, then price it however you want, because it is not truly going to be an "animated object". Like this: Toy Soldier This seemingly ordinary child's toy obeys simple movement commands for up to an hour a day. It cannot attack, speak, or perform complex tasks in any manner. But it can move where told (assuming it can get there), stand at attention, and otherwise participate in a child's world of play. Prerequisites: CL1, Wooden soldier, animate object. Market price: 100gp. (Yes, it is an intentionally expensive toy.) How do you get a 100gp figure if "animate object" is required to make it? Isn't that like a lvl 5 or 6 spell? I don't consider 100gp too expensive for a gift to the son of the king, though... (or maybe a wizard's child's toy...) This is basically what I'm looking for. I, too, had considered the "animate rope" spell, as well as "mage hand". "Unseen servant" is also pretty close. I can't imagine the effect I'm looking for is much beyond either one of those. "Prestidigitation" is cool, as it lasts a nice long time (for my 1x per day wonderous item) but I might think its a bit generous. Someone should make a lvl 1 or lvl 0 spell for animate object that only affects tiny things and/or doesn't give them combat stats. (For example: like unseen servant only it makes the item give the effect...) I think I'll base a wonderous item off of a lvl 0 spell (like mage hand) and see what my DM says...
JulesCARV 03-14-07, 01:37 PM	Well, it seems to me that a skeleton or zombie would be able to do it for just 25-50 gp worth of onyx stones, and have greater overall utility too. Or, if you're one of those good aligned parties, a homunculus is generally superior, being tougher, able to fly, intelligent, etc, and costs about 1,100 gp (doesn't have a price, but should be around 2,200 gp), so I'd say that the vastly inferior nutcracker being worth "2,500 minimum" is a bit of a stretch. Maybe I underpriced it, but 2,500 would be overpricing, unless homunculuses are really, really, really underpriced.
JayceMD 03-14-07, 01:41 PM	How do you get a 100gp figure if "animate object" is required to make it? Isn't that like a lvl 5 or 6 spell? I don't consider 100gp too expensive for a gift to the son of the king, though... (or maybe a wizard's child's toy...) Remember that the pricing guidelines in the DMG are just that: guidelines. They, essentially, assume that you're getting the best possible use out of the item using that particular spell. Also remember that, while the spells used to create an item have some relevance to the item's function, they don't exactly replicate the spell. For example, although you can use Fireball to create a flaming sword, the sword doesn't cast a fireball when it strikes. So, the [Spell Level] X [Caster Level] X [Price Modifier] equation would work if the item in question cast Animate Object. Since you're simply using Animate Object as part of the item creation, the equation isn't really appropriate. Rather, you should look at equivalent items as a guideline or, failing that, do a basic supply/demand analysis to find an appropriate cost. In any event, take a look at the cost for a homunculus or a boggun. This toy should definitly be less expensive than those creatures, since it is nowhere near as useful.
Seeker95 03-14-07, 03:37 PM	How do you get a 100gp figure if "animate object" is required to make it? Isn't that like a lvl 5 or 6 spell?Pricing a magic item uses the spell level only if the item is duplicating the spell effect. The toy soldier is not casting or duplicating animate object. A wizard is casting animate object *on* the toy soldier. In this case, the caster is simply limiting the effect the spell can have on the wooden soldier. The caster can charge whatever s/he wants for the item. If your market will support a higher price, then I suspect your wizard will charge more for the toy.
SALDAR 03-14-07, 10:41 PM	I like the Toy Soldier. I would change the prereqs to include Craft Wondrous Item (which it is) and change the spell to Prestidigitation.
Hapycamper 03-15-07, 06:35 PM	Pricing a magic item uses the spell level only if the item is duplicating the spell effect. The toy soldier is not casting or duplicating animate object. A wizard is casting animate object *on* the toy soldier. In this case, the caster is simply limiting the effect the spell can have on the wooden soldier. The caster can charge whatever s/he wants for the item. If your market will support a higher price, then I suspect your wizard will charge more for the toy. Ah, yes. My bad. Unfortunately, I wanted to make a toy soldier way before I could cast "Animate Object".... :) Say some time around when I gain Craft Wonderous Object around lvl 3 or so... I'll just have to see what my DM allows. (But as he is new, I wanted broader feedback so I don't take advantage of him and things are rather fair...)
Magetastic 03-15-07, 07:13 PM	Meh, if i was giving a kid a toy in D&D i'd give him a gray bag of tricks.