Post/Author/DateTime	Post
masterofmayhem 09-25-04, 02:30 PM	From the 3.5 SRD: Animate Dead Necromancy [Evil] Level: Clr 3, Death 3, Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: One or more corpses touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell turns the bones or bodies of dead creatures into undead skeletons or zombies that follow your spoken commands. The undead can follow you, or they can remain in an area and attack any creature (or just a specific kind of creature) entering the place. They remain animated until they are destroyed. (A destroyed skeleton or zombie can’t be animated again.) Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit) The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit. Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones. Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a true anatomy. Material Component: You must place a black onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead into the mouth or eye socket of each corpse you intend to animate. The magic of the spell turns these gems into worthless, burned-out shells. Now, assume you have a cleric3/Wizard3/ Mystic Theurge 6. You also have the practiced caster feat and the evil domain. Would the benefit from the evil domain apply to all your evil spells (even wizard ones)? EVIL DOMAIN Granted Power: You cast evil spells at +1 caster level. From the Rules of the game: Caster Level: Your level in the class that gives you access to the particular spell you're casting. In some cases, your caster level is less than your class level; if so, this is noted in the class description. For example, a paladin's caster level is one-half his paladin level. (A paladin of 3rd level or lower has no caster level at all.) Also, when using the Animate Dead spell, would you have: a) 52 HD of undead from your cleric levels b) 52 HD of undead from your cleric levels and 48 HD of undead from your wizard levels c) 52 HD of undead from each, giving you a total of 104 HD of undead to command (but the totals are still divided, meaning you can’t have one really powerful skeleton, etc.) Thanks in advance for helping this hopeful necromancer-to-be. :D :cool:
Seyluun 09-25-04, 02:51 PM	The granted power of the evil domain doesn t specify "divine spells", and arcane and divine magic are two differents things, so i ll go with the "c" answer.
Dracoulis The Phyrexian 09-25-04, 03:20 PM	Actually, you get 40 HD. Caster level only counts up the relevant class caster levels, not any in general. Your character happens to have a caster level of 9 for cleric spells, and 9 for wizard spell. They'll become 10 for Evil spells. Also, Animate Dead does say that you have a max of caster level x4 in HD, no matter how many times you cast the spell. So why should casting the spell in two different classes give you more, as you're only casting the spell again? Thus, as this is an Evil spell, you'll cast it as a 10th level caster, meaning 40 HD. It's probably better to stay straight cleric if you want to be the best necro possible.
Methos of Aundair 09-25-04, 03:25 PM	Recall that you have to designate what class the Practiced Spellcaster feat applies too. Of course you could have taken the feat twice, once each for wizard and cleric. I’ll go with answer D. D) 52 HD from either wizard or cleric but the combined HD from both arcane/divine castings of this spell cannot exceed 52 HD. I also agree that the Evil domain specifies evil spells and not divine evil spells, so therefore it would add +1 caster level towards arcane evil spells as well. At first I wasn’t for sure if the Evil domain would stack with the Practiced Spellcaster feat but I believe it should. Since I can’t think of any other instances where +1 caster level doesn’t stack.
Methos of Aundair 09-25-04, 03:27 PM	Originally posted by Dracoulis Caster level only counts up the relevant class caster levels, not any in general. Your character happens to have a caster level of 9 for cleric spells, and 9 for wizard spell. They'll become 10 for Evil spells. You probably didn't notice he stated he has the Practiced Spellcaster feat (Complete Divine).
masterofmayhem 09-25-04, 04:59 PM	Sorry, yes, I do plan on taking Practiced Spellcaster once for each class. From the Animate Dead spell description: No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. But then there is also this: From the 3.5 SRD: CASTER LEVEL A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell. You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level. In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt) but also to your caster level check to overcome your target’s spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check). The problem arises in the fact that I have two caster levels. The spell states that you "can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level." The description of caster level says, "A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell." So while the anti-munchkin in me screams that this can't be true, it would seem by the wording of the spell and the description of caster level that it is. Any thoughts?
Methos of Aundair 09-25-04, 06:18 PM	Originally posted by masterofmayhem So while the anti-munchkin in me screams that this can't be true, it would seem by the wording of the spell and the description of caster level that it is. You are correct it does state “per class” but as a DM I wouldn’t allow it even though the RAW seems to say that you can.
masterofmayhem 09-27-04, 11:51 PM	:bump:
Dracoulis The Phyrexian 09-28-04, 12:21 AM	Indeed I did miss the Practiced Spellcaster feat. My apologies. 52 HD would be correct. You do have an interesting point about the multiple caster levels resulting in different answers. However, I feel that you're putting the emphasis on the wrong part of the statement. From the Animate Dead spell description: No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. I would say that attempting to use two different caster levels would result in failure to comply with the first part of that statement. 52 HD from one class, zero from the other. Or any combination that adds up to 52.
smrtgmp 09-28-04, 02:44 AM	I think it would be answer C. If you stuck with mystic theurge and picked up practiced spellcaster twice, then you should be able to reap the full benefits of those sacrafices. The skeletons were animated by different sources of magic, so they should be treated differently IMO.
masterofmayhem 09-30-04, 10:58 PM	Indeed I did miss the Practiced Spellcaster feat. My apologies. No worries, friend. :) 52 HD would be correct. You do have an interesting point about the multiple caster levels resulting in different answers. However, I feel that you're putting the emphasis on the wrong part of the statement. I would say that attempting to use two different caster levels would result in failure to comply with the first part of that statement. 52 HD from one class, zero from the other. Or any combination that adds up to 52. A valid point, and one that I can neither bring myself to agree or disagree with. I am unsure which it would be, as i am unsure which takes precedence (CL or spell description). I think it would be answer C. If you stuck with mystic theurge and picked up practiced spellcaster twice, then you should be able to reap the full benefits of those sacrafices. The skeletons were animated by different sources of magic, so they should be treated differently IMO. Also a good point. It is a prestige class, after all, and, coupled with two feats, should it not be powerful? Any other opinions? Rebuttals? Please? :)
masterofmayhem 10-01-04, 12:58 PM	C'mon, no one has anything to say??
Dracoulis The Phyrexian 10-01-04, 01:56 PM	I really don't think they should stack. It seems very similar to claiming that because I'm a Cleric with the Destruction domain and a Wizard, my caster levels for a spell on both lists (like, say, Disintegrate) should stack. You're essentially getting double your caster level. That probably was not intended in anyway whatsoever.
darczero 10-03-04, 01:22 AM	First, someone please fill me in on what exactly Practiced Spellcaster does. I haven't been able to pick up Complete Divine yet (paycheck hasn't come in).
masterofmayhem 10-03-04, 03:06 PM	I really don't think they should stack. It seems very similar to claiming that because I'm a Cleric with the Destruction domain and a Wizard, my caster levels for a spell on both lists (like, say, Disintegrate) should stack. You're essentially getting double your caster level. That probably was not intended in anyway whatsoever. No, but it is like saying you cast those spells at a different power (if you have a different CL), and that you amount of them per day are controlled separately. First, someone please fill me in on what exactly Practiced Spellcaster does. I haven't been able to pick up Complete Divine yet (paycheck hasn't come in). Practiced Spellcaster increases your caster level for one class by four. The increase, however, cannot raise your caster level over your HD. Also. the increase to caster level does not increase spells known and spells per day. It only affects things that are based on your CL (spell resistance checks, damage for fireballs, duration of spells, etc.).