Animate Dead, greater [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animate Dead, greater [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Maxxx
11-02-06, 07:58 AM How high of a level would you make a version of the animate dead spell that let's you apply the template to creatures of up to 40HD (20 original HD for zombies) or even 60HD.
As a DM I would prefer my 20th level dread necromancer player with a Charisma score of something like 30 and animated undead with a total of 280HD to have 7 40HD undead and not 14 20HD ones or even better 4 60HD ones and one with 40HD. The 14 20HD undead just slow down the game and are pretty useless, unless you just use them with the Destruction Retribution feat and blow them up in the first round.
RobbyPants
11-02-06, 10:02 AM I'd say about 2 to 3 levels higher than what Animate Dead would normally be for a caster (so 5 or 6 for a Cleric, and 6 or 7 for a Wizard). I've never playtested such a spell, but this seems to be the norm for "improved" versions of spells.
Caldavien
11-03-06, 01:00 AM where do you get the template? Im having trouble figuring out how to create something other than human skeletons. Thanks
Maxxx
11-03-06, 04:26 AM where do you get the template? Im having trouble figuring out how to create something other than human skeletons. Thanks

Both templates are in the SRD:
Skeleton template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm)
Zombie template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm)

Both templates can be applied to creatures with arbitrary HD, but animate dead only allows a final undead with at most 20HD.
ninja1
11-03-06, 09:08 AM If you are allowed to use the Dragonomicon.. they have templates for Dragon Skeletons and Dragon Zombies that break away from the MM's templates.

One of the biggest differences imo is that they remove the HD cap for animating dragon corpses. If you can procure a 60 HD dragon corpse, you can very well animate it as a 60 HD skeleton or zombie (another difference is removing the doubling of zombie HD)...

Also, IMHO, 14 20HD undead are far, far from useless... unless of course you haven't bothered to cast Awaken Undead upon them and did not use the Corpscrafter chain of feats upon them.
malignor
11-03-06, 01:54 PM 20 hitdie undead?
Balor Skeleton, Adult/Young Adult Dragon Skeletons, tons of 10HD zombies (like half-fiend 10-headed zombie hydras!)

I can't think of any level where such wonderful fodder can't serve a purpose. Useful combatant? Sometimes, sometimes not. But anything that soaks up a few rounds of combat and at least 130 hitpoints for you just aint something to complain about.
Malakai_Demonos
11-03-06, 02:34 PM I also think what he is trying to say is that having too many skeletons just really slow downs combat, which it would. Also, you all over look the fact of how you are going to get all these 40-60 hit dice skeletons. You just try to find the skeleton of a 60 hit dice epic advanced dragon as a level 15-20 character. I don't think I'd want to go to a dragon graveyard.
malignor
11-03-06, 04:22 PM Point.
Caldavien
11-03-06, 06:07 PM Both templates are in the SRD:
Skeleton template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm)
Zombie template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm)

Both templates can be applied to creatures with arbitrary HD, but animate dead only allows a final undead with at most 20HD.

but what books can they be found in? My DM really likes his books and it will make this easier on me.
ninja1
11-03-06, 11:20 PM The skeleton and zombie templates are found in the Monster Manual.

Skeleton starts on page 225
Zombie starts on page 265

enjoy!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maxxx 11-02-06, 07:58 AM	How high of a level would you make a version of the animate dead spell that let's you apply the template to creatures of up to 40HD (20 original HD for zombies) or even 60HD. As a DM I would prefer my 20th level dread necromancer player with a Charisma score of something like 30 and animated undead with a total of 280HD to have 7 40HD undead and not 14 20HD ones or even better 4 60HD ones and one with 40HD. The 14 20HD undead just slow down the game and are pretty useless, unless you just use them with the Destruction Retribution feat and blow them up in the first round.
RobbyPants 11-02-06, 10:02 AM	I'd say about 2 to 3 levels higher than what Animate Dead would normally be for a caster (so 5 or 6 for a Cleric, and 6 or 7 for a Wizard). I've never playtested such a spell, but this seems to be the norm for "improved" versions of spells.
Caldavien 11-03-06, 01:00 AM	where do you get the template? Im having trouble figuring out how to create something other than human skeletons. Thanks
Maxxx 11-03-06, 04:26 AM	where do you get the template? Im having trouble figuring out how to create something other than human skeletons. Thanks Both templates are in the SRD: Skeleton template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm) Zombie template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm) Both templates can be applied to creatures with arbitrary HD, but animate dead only allows a final undead with at most 20HD.
ninja1 11-03-06, 09:08 AM	If you are allowed to use the Dragonomicon.. they have templates for Dragon Skeletons and Dragon Zombies that break away from the MM's templates. One of the biggest differences imo is that they remove the HD cap for animating dragon corpses. If you can procure a 60 HD dragon corpse, you can very well animate it as a 60 HD skeleton or zombie (another difference is removing the doubling of zombie HD)... Also, IMHO, 14 20HD undead are far, far from useless... unless of course you haven't bothered to cast Awaken Undead upon them and did not use the Corpscrafter chain of feats upon them.
malignor 11-03-06, 01:54 PM	20 hitdie undead? Balor Skeleton, Adult/Young Adult Dragon Skeletons, tons of 10HD zombies (like half-fiend 10-headed zombie hydras!) I can't think of any level where such wonderful fodder can't serve a purpose. Useful combatant? Sometimes, sometimes not. But anything that soaks up a few rounds of combat and at least 130 hitpoints for you just aint something to complain about.
Malakai_Demonos 11-03-06, 02:34 PM	I also think what he is trying to say is that having too many skeletons just really slow downs combat, which it would. Also, you all over look the fact of how you are going to get all these 40-60 hit dice skeletons. You just try to find the skeleton of a 60 hit dice epic advanced dragon as a level 15-20 character. I don't think I'd want to go to a dragon graveyard.
malignor 11-03-06, 04:22 PM	Point.
Caldavien 11-03-06, 06:07 PM	Both templates are in the SRD: Skeleton template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm) Zombie template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm) Both templates can be applied to creatures with arbitrary HD, but animate dead only allows a final undead with at most 20HD. but what books can they be found in? My DM really likes his books and it will make this easier on me.
ninja1 11-03-06, 11:20 PM	The skeleton and zombie templates are found in the Monster Manual. Skeleton starts on page 225 Zombie starts on page 265 enjoy!