Animate Dead (rehashing some old questions) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animate Dead (rehashing some old questions) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Janos Antero
08-09-06, 03:03 PM It's been ages since I looked at these questions, so I'm a bit foggy. Hopefully someone knows the answer and can shed some light:

If you have Animate Dead from two sources (such as the Arcane and Divine versions of the spell), does your caster level stack, count seperately, or just count once for the total number of undead available to you?

If Animate Dead can't animate a creature with more than 10 hit dice (per MM), and Create Undead would make them uncontrolled undead, is there any way to create a Zombie with 10+ hit dice automatically under control of the caster without the use of Command Undead or Rebuking?

The only way I've found so far is Plague of Undead from Heroes of Horror that looks like it would sidestep the Animate Dead limit.
SoldierOfFortune187
08-09-06, 03:37 PM The arcane and divine versions of this spell are effectively two different things, so if you cast one version, it only checks the caster level of said version. Technically they would 'stack,' but only because you would figure it up the same way maximum undead you could control (i.e. 5th level cleric/7th level wizard controls the same number of hit dice -- 48, as a 12th level cleric or wizard would). You simply cannot create as many undead from a single casting (twice caster level/casting).
PhaedrusXY
08-09-06, 03:48 PM I think having the spell as both Arcane and Divine would interact exactly as described above, and I have a True Necro NPC in my sig that uses it like this.

The Morgh has the ability to spawn zombies of any hit dice which are automatically under its control. So all you have to do is Command a morgh (via Rebuke Undead), and leave it in your lair. Then capture any creatures you want to animate as zombies that have more than 10 hit dice, take them to your lair, and let the morgh finish them off. Then tell the morgh to command those zombies to obey you. You could also cast Command Undead on them.

Of course, getting your effective cleric level up high enough to Command a morgh is not really all that easy. I also think you're probably better off Commanding something that spawns more useful undead that have lower hit dice, like shadows, wraiths, etc. And finally, I think skeletons are more useful than zombies. There are exceptions, like dragon (flying mount) and hydra (still gets multiple attacks) zombies.
Janos Antero
08-09-06, 04:39 PM I agree, and vastly prefer skeletons. Except in this case I'm making a giant fast zombie whale submersible. A skeletal one would complicate matters.

DM wouldn't sign off on a Mummy Spell-Stitched whale submersible. I think he was afraid I'd give it fly.

I'll have to stick to Plague of Undead then, rats.

As a follow-up question, is there any clear answer to whether or not you can spell-stitch divine spells? They're cast as with a Sorcerer, but it doesn't seem to spell out if they must be arcane as implied.
smrtgmp
08-09-06, 05:00 PM I'm fairly certain that spell-stitched specifies that it only works with arcane spells. One of my PCs was looking into it, so I read up on it, and I seem to recall that stipulation.
neth2
08-09-06, 11:41 PM I agree, and vastly prefer skeletons. Except in this case I'm making a giant fast zombie whale submersible. A skeletal one would complicate matters.

DM wouldn't sign off on a Mummy Spell-Stitched whale submersible. I think he was afraid I'd give it fly.

I'll have to stick to Plague of Undead then, rats.

As a follow-up question, is there any clear answer to whether or not you can spell-stitch divine spells? They're cast as with a Sorcerer, but it doesn't seem to spell out if they must be arcane as implied.

it may not exactly fit the profile, but if your DM allows the Zombie Dragon template from Draconomicon, it allows unlimited HD and there are dragons
that swim, and they can fly too. Just somehow get your hands on a gargantuan dragon corpse and go to town.
an easy way to get a Huge dragon would be too summon an aspect of Tiamat. it's huge and isn't that powerful
Janos Antero
08-09-06, 11:48 PM Just somehow get your hands on a gargantuan dragon corpse and go to town.

Good idea, I'll look into it. I have to figure out if a dragon is big enough to contain several people for a few weeks of travel.
shruggar
08-10-06, 08:06 AM Portable Hole + Wall of Force is still the ultimate submersable ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Janos Antero 08-09-06, 03:03 PM	It's been ages since I looked at these questions, so I'm a bit foggy. Hopefully someone knows the answer and can shed some light: If you have Animate Dead from two sources (such as the Arcane and Divine versions of the spell), does your caster level stack, count seperately, or just count once for the total number of undead available to you? If Animate Dead can't animate a creature with more than 10 hit dice (per MM), and Create Undead would make them uncontrolled undead, is there any way to create a Zombie with 10+ hit dice automatically under control of the caster without the use of Command Undead or Rebuking? The only way I've found so far is Plague of Undead from Heroes of Horror that looks like it would sidestep the Animate Dead limit.
SoldierOfFortune187 08-09-06, 03:37 PM	The arcane and divine versions of this spell are effectively two different things, so if you cast one version, it only checks the caster level of said version. Technically they would 'stack,' but only because you would figure it up the same way maximum undead you could control (i.e. 5th level cleric/7th level wizard controls the same number of hit dice -- 48, as a 12th level cleric or wizard would). You simply cannot create as many undead from a single casting (twice caster level/casting).
PhaedrusXY 08-09-06, 03:48 PM	I think having the spell as both Arcane and Divine would interact exactly as described above, and I have a True Necro NPC in my sig that uses it like this. The Morgh has the ability to spawn zombies of any hit dice which are automatically under its control. So all you have to do is Command a morgh (via Rebuke Undead), and leave it in your lair. Then capture any creatures you want to animate as zombies that have more than 10 hit dice, take them to your lair, and let the morgh finish them off. Then tell the morgh to command those zombies to obey you. You could also cast Command Undead on them. Of course, getting your effective cleric level up high enough to Command a morgh is not really all that easy. I also think you're probably better off Commanding something that spawns more useful undead that have lower hit dice, like shadows, wraiths, etc. And finally, I think skeletons are more useful than zombies. There are exceptions, like dragon (flying mount) and hydra (still gets multiple attacks) zombies.
Janos Antero 08-09-06, 04:39 PM	I agree, and vastly prefer skeletons. Except in this case I'm making a giant fast zombie whale submersible. A skeletal one would complicate matters. DM wouldn't sign off on a Mummy Spell-Stitched whale submersible. I think he was afraid I'd give it fly. I'll have to stick to Plague of Undead then, rats. As a follow-up question, is there any clear answer to whether or not you can spell-stitch divine spells? They're cast as with a Sorcerer, but it doesn't seem to spell out if they must be arcane as implied.
smrtgmp 08-09-06, 05:00 PM	I'm fairly certain that spell-stitched specifies that it only works with arcane spells. One of my PCs was looking into it, so I read up on it, and I seem to recall that stipulation.
neth2 08-09-06, 11:41 PM	I agree, and vastly prefer skeletons. Except in this case I'm making a giant fast zombie whale submersible. A skeletal one would complicate matters. DM wouldn't sign off on a Mummy Spell-Stitched whale submersible. I think he was afraid I'd give it fly. I'll have to stick to Plague of Undead then, rats. As a follow-up question, is there any clear answer to whether or not you can spell-stitch divine spells? They're cast as with a Sorcerer, but it doesn't seem to spell out if they must be arcane as implied. it may not exactly fit the profile, but if your DM allows the Zombie Dragon template from Draconomicon, it allows unlimited HD and there are dragons that swim, and they can fly too. Just somehow get your hands on a gargantuan dragon corpse and go to town. an easy way to get a Huge dragon would be too summon an aspect of Tiamat. it's huge and isn't that powerful
Janos Antero 08-09-06, 11:48 PM	Just somehow get your hands on a gargantuan dragon corpse and go to town. Good idea, I'll look into it. I have to figure out if a dragon is big enough to contain several people for a few weeks of travel.
shruggar 08-10-06, 08:06 AM	Portable Hole + Wall of Force is still the ultimate submersable ;)