Animate objects/dead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animate objects/dead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Divokej
09-02-07, 07:09 PM Why is there a seperate spell for animate dead? I mean it's pretty much the same darn thing.
Robespierre
09-02-07, 07:32 PM Hardly. One is using negative energy to animate corpses, the other is just using magic to animate random stuff.

For instance: one could animate a skeleton using animate objects and it would not be evil.(unless the SRD says that animate object is evil or uses negative energy, in which case my argument is destroyed...)
lint trap
09-02-07, 08:10 PM Because Animate Dead has a longer duration, and while Skeleton/Zombie is a template, animated objects are something else altogether. Granted, you can use Animate Object on a body, but generally you're better off spending the onyx.
katarl
09-03-07, 03:05 AM Seriously, they're totally different, even if they both make things move. Can you compare Fantasia-style mop animation to Faustian necromongering?

The objects are moved like puppets pulled by magic, whereas the skeletons and zombies are made unliving, they don't need magic to survive.
Branto
09-04-07, 01:37 AM I dunno, there's a certain charm to animate objects. For starters, people tend to waste smite evils and turnings and holy water and all of that on fake undead...

Though beyond the "fake out the holy people" thing, you're usually better off animating weapons... or something really big. Bonus if it's something really big WITH wheels, so it can zoom around and overrun/bullrush enemies. ;)
ArcTan
09-04-07, 02:08 AM Why is there a seperate spell for animate dead? I mean it's pretty much the same darn thing.

Gray Render Zombie
Size/Type: Large Undead
Hit Dice: 20d12+3 (133 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 30 ft. (can’t run)
Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +8 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+21
Attack: Bite +16 melee (2d6+7) or slam +16 melee (1d8+10)
Full Attack: Bite +16 melee (2d6+7) or slam +16 melee (1d8+10)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Single actions only, damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., undead traits
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +12
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 8, Con Ų, Int Ų, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: —
Feats: Toughness
Environment: Temperate marshes
Organization: Any
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: None

Animated Gray Render Corpse
Size/Type: Large Construct
Hit Dice: 4d10+30 (52 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (-1 size, +5 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+10
Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: Construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, hardness 2
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +1, Will -4
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 10, Con Ų, Int Ų, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: —
Feats: —
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: None

Note: This is the Large Animated Object monster entry. The Gray Render Corpse gets a +10 to move because it is bipedal, and receives hardness 2 because it is covered in animal hide, but has no other special qualities.

These look like two completely different monsters to me. And, as you can tell by the CR, the Zombie is usually better.
Ecalsneerg
09-04-07, 02:52 AM I think it would be good for fooling the PCs.

"Smite Evil!"
"The attack seems to have no adverse effect."
"DAMMIT!"
tarkin
09-04-07, 11:20 AM The Ravid, a positive energy creature, can do unlimited Animate Objects.

It makes for a good trick adventure.
lint trap
09-05-07, 04:11 PM The Ravid, a positive energy creature, can do unlimited Animate Objects.

It makes for a good trick adventure.

I like that. The party sets out to end a suspected Negative Energy menace, and ends up with an enemy which is anything but.
Tequila_Sunrise
09-05-07, 07:46 PM Why is there a seperate spell for animate dead? I mean it's pretty much the same darn thing.

The fact that Animate Object exists is one of the biggest flaws in the "creating undead isn't evil" argument. If Animate Dead was really just the creation of magical puppet strings to make a corpse dance around, why would there be another spell that does exactly that? And why would Animate Dead be limited to corpses?
Sephiroth Do'Urden
09-11-07, 09:09 AM Use animate object on an obdurion Chain and watch the fighters and barbarians cry!:cool:

Beats the hell out of creating a mummy...
mvincent
09-11-07, 04:58 PM I think it would be good for fooling the PCs.

"Smite Evil!"
"The attack seems to have no adverse effect."
"DAMMIT!"A similar trick is to have non-evil ghosts use the malevolence power to inhabit their own former bodies (which have been animated). They will even detect as evil, but smite evil will still not work on them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Divokej 09-02-07, 07:09 PM	Why is there a seperate spell for animate dead? I mean it's pretty much the same darn thing.
Robespierre 09-02-07, 07:32 PM	Hardly. One is using negative energy to animate corpses, the other is just using magic to animate random stuff. For instance: one could animate a skeleton using animate objects and it would not be evil.(unless the SRD says that animate object is evil or uses negative energy, in which case my argument is destroyed...)
lint trap 09-02-07, 08:10 PM	Because Animate Dead has a longer duration, and while Skeleton/Zombie is a template, animated objects are something else altogether. Granted, you can use Animate Object on a body, but generally you're better off spending the onyx.
katarl 09-03-07, 03:05 AM	Seriously, they're totally different, even if they both make things move. Can you compare Fantasia-style mop animation to Faustian necromongering? The objects are moved like puppets pulled by magic, whereas the skeletons and zombies are made unliving, they don't need magic to survive.
Branto 09-04-07, 01:37 AM	I dunno, there's a certain charm to animate objects. For starters, people tend to waste smite evils and turnings and holy water and all of that on fake undead... Though beyond the "fake out the holy people" thing, you're usually better off animating weapons... or something really big. Bonus if it's something really big WITH wheels, so it can zoom around and overrun/bullrush enemies. ;)
ArcTan 09-04-07, 02:08 AM	Why is there a seperate spell for animate dead? I mean it's pretty much the same darn thing. Gray Render Zombie Size/Type: Large Undead Hit Dice: 20d12+3 (133 hp) Initiative: -1 Speed: 30 ft. (can’t run) Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +8 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 16 Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+21 Attack: Bite +16 melee (2d6+7) or slam +16 melee (1d8+10) Full Attack: Bite +16 melee (2d6+7) or slam +16 melee (1d8+10) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: Single actions only, damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., undead traits Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +12 Abilities: Str 25, Dex 8, Con Ų, Int Ų, Wis 10, Cha 1 Skills: — Feats: Toughness Environment: Temperate marshes Organization: Any Challenge Rating: 6 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral evil Advancement: None Level Adjustment: None Animated Gray Render Corpse Size/Type: Large Construct Hit Dice: 4d10+30 (52 hp) Initiative: +0 Speed: 30 ft. Armor Class: 14 (-1 size, +5 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 14 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+10 Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d8+4) Full Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d8+4) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: None Special Qualities: Construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, hardness 2 Saves: Fort +1, Ref +1, Will -4 Abilities: Str 16, Dex 10, Con Ų, Int Ų, Wis 1, Cha 1 Skills: — Feats: — Environment: Any Organization: Solitary Challenge Rating: 3 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: None Level Adjustment: None Note: This is the Large Animated Object monster entry. The Gray Render Corpse gets a +10 to move because it is bipedal, and receives hardness 2 because it is covered in animal hide, but has no other special qualities. These look like two completely different monsters to me. And, as you can tell by the CR, the Zombie is usually better.
Ecalsneerg 09-04-07, 02:52 AM	I think it would be good for fooling the PCs. "Smite Evil!" "The attack seems to have no adverse effect." "DAMMIT!"
tarkin 09-04-07, 11:20 AM	The Ravid, a positive energy creature, can do unlimited Animate Objects. It makes for a good trick adventure.
lint trap 09-05-07, 04:11 PM	The Ravid, a positive energy creature, can do unlimited Animate Objects. It makes for a good trick adventure. I like that. The party sets out to end a suspected Negative Energy menace, and ends up with an enemy which is anything but.
Tequila_Sunrise 09-05-07, 07:46 PM	Why is there a seperate spell for animate dead? I mean it's pretty much the same darn thing. The fact that Animate Object exists is one of the biggest flaws in the "creating undead isn't evil" argument. If Animate Dead was really just the creation of magical puppet strings to make a corpse dance around, why would there be another spell that does exactly that? And why would Animate Dead be limited to corpses?
Sephiroth Do'Urden 09-11-07, 09:09 AM	Use animate object on an obdurion Chain and watch the fighters and barbarians cry!:cool: Beats the hell out of creating a mummy...
mvincent 09-11-07, 04:58 PM	I think it would be good for fooling the PCs. "Smite Evil!" "The attack seems to have no adverse effect." "DAMMIT!"A similar trick is to have non-evil ghosts use the malevolence power to inhabit their own former bodies (which have been animated). They will even detect as evil, but smite evil will still not work on them.