Animate rope and Trip? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animate rope and Trip? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
beezly
07-15-05, 12:11 PM Hey, i'm playing a sorc and i'm thinking of picking up "animate rope" as one of my spells, and i was wondering how the tripwire function worked, and whether it's a decent spell to pick up.

Thanks,
Adam
Gort32
07-15-05, 01:19 PM I would rule that an animated rope doesn't have enough strength to actually push a character around to actually perform a trip attack. however, tripping a running opponent would be a different thing entirely. Look up in the DMG under the Traps section for how a tripping chain works. Just take out the 2d4 damage and maybe lower the Trip BAB and use the rest
tarkin
07-15-05, 01:32 PM I read the spell as working as follows:

1) You can use it to cause a Reflex Save or be entangled

2) You can use the rope as a touch attack weapon that lets you do the Trip attack without the AoO, as you are armed. Normal trip rules apply, (ranged touch with 10ft full reach, then strength check vs. strength/dex check)
kjenks
07-15-05, 01:47 PM The Animate Rope spell can be used as a trip line or to cause a single opponent to become entangled.

The mechanics are pretty well spelled out in the spell description, but you have to chase down rules in several different parts of the PH/SRD to really figure out the types of actions required for all of the parts.

Here's how I interpret it:

(A) If you want to entangle an opponent:

1 move action -- get out the rope (provokes an AoO) -- I prefer silk to hemp, but a chain can work, too

1 standard action -- cast spell (provokes an AoO unless casting
defensively)

1 standard action -- throw rope, making ranged touch attack to get it near your opponent (range increment 10 ft., maximum range 5x10 ft. or 50 ft., provokes an AoO)

1 move action -- give one command, "Loop and knot," to entangle opponent. (Reflex save negates, but Spell Resistance does not apply.)

If all of this works, your entangled opponent can...

(a) sunder your rope with a slashing weapon or bludgeoning (but an entangled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity, which might affect its attack roll if it uses Weapon Finesse),

===
Smashing a weapon or shield with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon is accomplished by the sunder special attack. Smashing an object is a lot like sundering a weapon or shield, except that your attack roll is opposed by the object's AC. Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon.
===

Rope has AC 10, hardness 0, HP 2 or HP 4 for silk rope.
Chain has hardness 10 and 5 hit points.
A whip has hardness 2 and probably about 3 hit points.
A spiked chain has hardness 10 and 10 hit points.
An adamantine spiked chain has hardness 20 and 13 hit points and costs 3,025 gp.
A +1 Ghost Touch adamantine spiked chain has hardness 22 and 23 hit points and costs 11,025 gp.

Smashing a rope with a bludgeoning weapon probably won't work very well (DM call). Sundering is an attack action that usually provokes an AoO.

(b) cast a spell or use a breath weapon to damage the rope, but an entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell's level) or lose the spell.

(c) make a DC 23 Strength check to burst your rope (DC 24 with a silk
rope, DC 26 with a chain), but it's unclear what kind of action this would be, probably a standard action that provokes an AoO. (Per the Concentration skill
description, you may be able to avoid this AoO by making a Concentration check, but there are no guidelines for the DC of that Concentration check.)

===
If an item has lost half or more of its hit points, the DC to break it drops by 2.
===

(d) slip free with a DC 20 Escape Artist check. Your DM may assign +2 on this DC when using silk rope, but that's not really in the rules. If you (the spellcaster) have 5 or more ranks in Escape Artist, you may get a +2 bonus on this DC, but that's also not really in the rules. See Use Rope and Escape Artist skill descriptions for details.

Escaping from an Animate Rope spell is a full-round action which probably should provoke an AoO. (Per the Concentration skill description, you may be able to avoid this AoO by making a Concentration check, but there are no guidelines for the DC of that Concentration check.) An entangled creature takes a –4 penalty to Dexterity, which makes this Escape Artist check a little more challenging.

(B) If you want to trip an opponent:

1 move action -- get out the rope (provokes an AoO)

1 standard action -- cast spell (provokes an AoO unless casting defensively)

1 standard action -- throw rope, making ranged touch attack to get it near your opponent (provokes an AoO)

1 move action -- give one command, "Loop and knot," to wrap around opponent's legs. (There is no Reflex save for this and Spell Resistance does not apply.)

At this point, you can make an opposed check to trip your opponent per the Trip rules. If you fail your opposed check, you can drop the animated rope to prevent yourself from being tripped in return. (The mechanics for this opposed trip check are debatable, since the spell description doesn't specify what it means exactly when it says it can be used as a trip line.) It's not clear what kind of action this opposed check would require, but I'd use an attack action.

It's unclear if the spellcaster can give his end of the animated rope to another character so that someone with a higher Strength score or possibly the Improved Trip feat can make the opposed trip check.

After the trip attempt (failed or successful), the rope is no longer entangling your opponent, but it's still in his square, so you can use another move action to command it again.

An Animate Rope spell can be cast on a chain instead of rope. The SRD equipment table GOODS AND SERVICES lists: Chain (10 ft.), costs 30 gp and weighs 2 lb.

Chain has hardness 10 and 5 hit points. It can be burst with a DC 26 Strength check.

It's possible that a DM might let you cast a [Greater] Magic Weapon spell on a chain, further increasing its hardness and HP. Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item's hit points. Since you'll be using the chain as a weapon, and since you can clearly cast [Greater] Magic Weapon on a spiked chain, it seems pretty reasonable to allow the spell to be cast on a normal chain. It's unclear if an enhancement bonus on a normal rope or chain would affect the ranged touch attack needed to entangle or trip your opponent.

An Animate Rope spell can also be cast on a whip. It's unclear if you can cast an Animate Rope spell on a spiked chain weapon because the weapon may have more than 1" in thickness in spots (like the handle, if any, and those spikes, whatever they look like). Casting an Animate Rope spell on a magical spiked chain or whip means all sorts of weapon enhancement and special abilities come into play, like entangling an incorporeal creature with a +1 Ghost Touch whip, or inflicting extra damage (Flaming, Frost, Shocking, etc.) with a "successful hit" with ranged touch attack instead of a melee attack.

Entangling an opponent with an Animate Rope spell is so hard to use, requiring at least two full rounds of actions (two of which provoke AoOs) including a ranged touch attack and giving your opponent a Relfex save (which negates the entangling effect), that it's never going to be a very powerful ability.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
beezly 07-15-05, 12:11 PM	Hey, i'm playing a sorc and i'm thinking of picking up "animate rope" as one of my spells, and i was wondering how the tripwire function worked, and whether it's a decent spell to pick up. Thanks, Adam
Gort32 07-15-05, 01:19 PM	I would rule that an animated rope doesn't have enough strength to actually push a character around to actually perform a trip attack. however, tripping a running opponent would be a different thing entirely. Look up in the DMG under the Traps section for how a tripping chain works. Just take out the 2d4 damage and maybe lower the Trip BAB and use the rest
tarkin 07-15-05, 01:32 PM	I read the spell as working as follows: 1) You can use it to cause a Reflex Save or be entangled 2) You can use the rope as a touch attack weapon that lets you do the Trip attack without the AoO, as you are armed. Normal trip rules apply, (ranged touch with 10ft full reach, then strength check vs. strength/dex check)
kjenks 07-15-05, 01:47 PM	The Animate Rope spell can be used as a trip line or to cause a single opponent to become entangled. The mechanics are pretty well spelled out in the spell description, but you have to chase down rules in several different parts of the PH/SRD to really figure out the types of actions required for all of the parts. Here's how I interpret it: (A) If you want to entangle an opponent: 1 move action -- get out the rope (provokes an AoO) -- I prefer silk to hemp, but a chain can work, too 1 standard action -- cast spell (provokes an AoO unless casting defensively) 1 standard action -- throw rope, making ranged touch attack to get it near your opponent (range increment 10 ft., maximum range 5x10 ft. or 50 ft., provokes an AoO) 1 move action -- give one command, "Loop and knot," to entangle opponent. (Reflex save negates, but Spell Resistance does not apply.) If all of this works, your entangled opponent can... (a) sunder your rope with a slashing weapon or bludgeoning (but an entangled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity, which might affect its attack roll if it uses Weapon Finesse), === Smashing a weapon or shield with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon is accomplished by the sunder special attack. Smashing an object is a lot like sundering a weapon or shield, except that your attack roll is opposed by the object's AC. Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon. === Rope has AC 10, hardness 0, HP 2 or HP 4 for silk rope. Chain has hardness 10 and 5 hit points. A whip has hardness 2 and probably about 3 hit points. A spiked chain has hardness 10 and 10 hit points. An adamantine spiked chain has hardness 20 and 13 hit points and costs 3,025 gp. A +1 Ghost Touch adamantine spiked chain has hardness 22 and 23 hit points and costs 11,025 gp. Smashing a rope with a bludgeoning weapon probably won't work very well (DM call). Sundering is an attack action that usually provokes an AoO. (b) cast a spell or use a breath weapon to damage the rope, but an entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell's level) or lose the spell. (c) make a DC 23 Strength check to burst your rope (DC 24 with a silk rope, DC 26 with a chain), but it's unclear what kind of action this would be, probably a standard action that provokes an AoO. (Per the Concentration skill description, you may be able to avoid this AoO by making a Concentration check, but there are no guidelines for the DC of that Concentration check.) === If an item has lost half or more of its hit points, the DC to break it drops by 2. === (d) slip free with a DC 20 Escape Artist check. Your DM may assign +2 on this DC when using silk rope, but that's not really in the rules. If you (the spellcaster) have 5 or more ranks in Escape Artist, you may get a +2 bonus on this DC, but that's also not really in the rules. See Use Rope and Escape Artist skill descriptions for details. Escaping from an Animate Rope spell is a full-round action which probably should provoke an AoO. (Per the Concentration skill description, you may be able to avoid this AoO by making a Concentration check, but there are no guidelines for the DC of that Concentration check.) An entangled creature takes a –4 penalty to Dexterity, which makes this Escape Artist check a little more challenging. (B) If you want to trip an opponent: 1 move action -- get out the rope (provokes an AoO) 1 standard action -- cast spell (provokes an AoO unless casting defensively) 1 standard action -- throw rope, making ranged touch attack to get it near your opponent (provokes an AoO) 1 move action -- give one command, "Loop and knot," to wrap around opponent's legs. (There is no Reflex save for this and Spell Resistance does not apply.) At this point, you can make an opposed check to trip your opponent per the Trip rules. If you fail your opposed check, you can drop the animated rope to prevent yourself from being tripped in return. (The mechanics for this opposed trip check are debatable, since the spell description doesn't specify what it means exactly when it says it can be used as a trip line.) It's not clear what kind of action this opposed check would require, but I'd use an attack action. It's unclear if the spellcaster can give his end of the animated rope to another character so that someone with a higher Strength score or possibly the Improved Trip feat can make the opposed trip check. After the trip attempt (failed or successful), the rope is no longer entangling your opponent, but it's still in his square, so you can use another move action to command it again. An Animate Rope spell can be cast on a chain instead of rope. The SRD equipment table GOODS AND SERVICES lists: Chain (10 ft.), costs 30 gp and weighs 2 lb. Chain has hardness 10 and 5 hit points. It can be burst with a DC 26 Strength check. It's possible that a DM might let you cast a [Greater] Magic Weapon spell on a chain, further increasing its hardness and HP. Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item's hit points. Since you'll be using the chain as a weapon, and since you can clearly cast [Greater] Magic Weapon on a spiked chain, it seems pretty reasonable to allow the spell to be cast on a normal chain. It's unclear if an enhancement bonus on a normal rope or chain would affect the ranged touch attack needed to entangle or trip your opponent. An Animate Rope spell can also be cast on a whip. It's unclear if you can cast an Animate Rope spell on a spiked chain weapon because the weapon may have more than 1" in thickness in spots (like the handle, if any, and those spikes, whatever they look like). Casting an Animate Rope spell on a magical spiked chain or whip means all sorts of weapon enhancement and special abilities come into play, like entangling an incorporeal creature with a +1 Ghost Touch whip, or inflicting extra damage (Flaming, Frost, Shocking, etc.) with a "successful hit" with ranged touch attack instead of a melee attack. Entangling an opponent with an Animate Rope spell is so hard to use, requiring at least two full rounds of actions (two of which provoke AoOs) including a ranged touch attack and giving your opponent a Relfex save (which negates the entangling effect), that it's never going to be a very powerful ability.