Animated Golems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animated Golems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Heitomos
02-24-07, 04:29 PM I was browsing through my DMG while playing a game where my party just aquired an Iron Golem under their command. I stumbled upon the intelligent items page. Now, Iron is an item, Iron Golem is Animated Iron in the shape of a large hummanoid, so I was wondering, since the Iron Golem is a magic item technically int he possesion of the Sorcerer in the party (the golem's master), would they be able to make the Golem an intelligent item? Also, if you can, since it's humanoid and is now a sentient creature, could it take class lvls? It has 18d10 HD, would that mean that it has 18 lvls of contruct? (So it would take 18000 exp to take it's first class lvl)
SilentOne
02-24-07, 04:41 PM No, the golem is a construct, not an item, and thus a creature, thus unable to be enhanced to be an intelligent item. I'd love to see what a Maug or Nimblewright (intelligent constructs) would do to your sorcerer upon hearing they're considered items that can be possessed.
Heitomos
02-24-07, 04:42 PM So it couldn't take lvls eh? Oh well, guess ill let the poor guy know the bad news.
SALDAR
02-24-07, 04:47 PM There is a spell called Awaken Construct (can't remember which book) that makes constructs free thinking beings. It still wouldn't be a possession.
Heitomos
02-24-07, 04:49 PM So after that it could take lvls? How much exp would it need to get it's first lvl? (it currently has 18HD)
Lafing Cat
02-24-07, 06:59 PM I think Savage Species has LA for awakened constructs. It would need 1000*(HD+LA) exp to gain its next level.
Firestick42
02-25-07, 12:04 AM There's a feat in Dragon Magazine that let's the crafter add intelegence to a construct during creation. It's a flat rate of 8,000gp and doesn't grant very much, but it would be more than enough to get class levels.
cwslyclgh
02-25-07, 12:24 AM No, the golem is a construct, not an item, and thus a creature, thus unable to be enhanced to be an intelligent item.of course constructs are created with an ITEM CREATION FEAT (Craft Construct).... so your argument falls a little short in that regard... there is also the fact that intelligent items are considered construts anyway according to the SRD (and the DMG)

Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs.

using the fact that construstc are created using an item creation feat, and the fact that intelligent items are to be treated as constructs anyway, I have little problem allowing the crafting of intelligent constructs in my game... and do not see anyplace in the RAW that clearly contradicts that notion.
NerdNumber1
02-25-07, 04:03 PM Make an inteligent item (I suggest a rust gaunlet).
Order the golem to give in to the items dominating effect.
Give the golem the item and have it dominate the golem.

There you go, an inteligent golem (more or less). To reiforce the effect you can put the item inside the golem or strap it on. I have done something similiar in Gareth's Arena.

Edit: To learn enough to gain a class level, I think that the inteligent object will need several years to learn how to work his new body. Remember, your PCs have had their entire lives up to adult-hood to practice moving their bodies.
Senko
02-25-07, 08:33 PM Hmmmm I suddenly have the image of an epic mage whoes tower is guarded by intelligent adamantine and mithril golems (1 of each on either side of the door for colour co-ordination) with 20 levels of fighter and wizard each.
Arniha
02-25-07, 11:07 PM Hmmmm I suddenly have the image of an epic mage whoes tower is guarded by intelligent adamantine and mithril golems (1 of each on either side of the door for colour co-ordination) with 20 levels of fighter and wizard each.

If you're an epic level mage, do you really guards. I dunno, but i've only seen two epic level mages play, the first was a 123rd level necromancer, chaotic evil, whom whiped out entire cities with cantrips. His tower was guarded by the fact that everyone was too scared to go near it.
The second didn't really need guards because his castle was a floating enclave. That and he was the tyrant ruler of the continent it was floating over.
NerdNumber1
02-25-07, 11:20 PM If you're an epic level mage, do you really guards. I dunno, but i've only seen two epic level mages play, the first was a 123rd level necromancer, chaotic evil, whom whiped out entire cities with cantrips. His tower was guarded by the fact that everyone was too scared to go near it.
The second didn't really need guards because his castle was a floating enclave. That and he was the tyrant ruler of the continent it was floating over.

Gaurds help you screen out door-to-door salesmen and other annoyances. Also, golem guards are alot cooler than garden gnomes as lawn ornaments and anyone who sees such guards would be impressed.
Senko
02-25-07, 11:25 PM Not to mention that as an epic level mage (I was thinking mid 20's not mid hundreds by the way) you'll have concerns that may take you out of the plane for years or centuries at a time and its a pain to come back and find some young upstarts have walked in and browsed your library, drunk your ale and urinated in the herbs. Remember not every high level character wants to rule countries or be widely known. I myself would use my powers to claim a small plot of land and let the rest of the world go about its business, in fact I'd probably only stop by home every 500 years or so to rest and relax for a 50 year vacation.
ninja1
02-26-07, 03:26 PM I'm not sure if there is a Level Adjustment (LA). Savage Species should say.

However, I do know that Effective Character Level (ECL) includes LA, HD, and class levels.

So, to get to level 1, the newly awakened construct would need enough xp to rise from his current ECL to his new ECL.

For a moment, let's assume that the LA is zero (I doubt it, but let's hypothesize).

The hypothetical guy would have a starting ECL of 18 (LA 0 + HD 18 + level 0).

The next target is level 1 in a character class, which brings the ECL up to 19 (LA 0 + HD 18 + level 1).

To get to ECL 19 requires the xp needed to get to 19th level, and that is just to obtain the 1st class level.

2nd level brings you to ECL 20 and requires the xp needed to get to 20th level, etc....
Arniha
02-27-07, 01:48 AM The line, lichs rock gave me another idea. Couldn't you in fact build a clockwork body, then use a phylactery to remove your soul, then use a wish to switch bodies into that new clockwork body?
Yokomohoyo
02-27-07, 02:01 AM If you wish your golem to take levels look into the Ebberon Warforge and make them a character with one of those. Just call it a golem instead of a warforge.
Senko
02-27-07, 02:23 AM Golems have different abilities particularly the mithril and adamantine ones immunity to mind effects and 90% of magic for instance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Heitomos 02-24-07, 04:29 PM	I was browsing through my DMG while playing a game where my party just aquired an Iron Golem under their command. I stumbled upon the intelligent items page. Now, Iron is an item, Iron Golem is Animated Iron in the shape of a large hummanoid, so I was wondering, since the Iron Golem is a magic item technically int he possesion of the Sorcerer in the party (the golem's master), would they be able to make the Golem an intelligent item? Also, if you can, since it's humanoid and is now a sentient creature, could it take class lvls? It has 18d10 HD, would that mean that it has 18 lvls of contruct? (So it would take 18000 exp to take it's first class lvl)
SilentOne 02-24-07, 04:41 PM	No, the golem is a construct, not an item, and thus a creature, thus unable to be enhanced to be an intelligent item. I'd love to see what a Maug or Nimblewright (intelligent constructs) would do to your sorcerer upon hearing they're considered items that can be possessed.
Heitomos 02-24-07, 04:42 PM	So it couldn't take lvls eh? Oh well, guess ill let the poor guy know the bad news.
SALDAR 02-24-07, 04:47 PM	There is a spell called Awaken Construct (can't remember which book) that makes constructs free thinking beings. It still wouldn't be a possession.
Heitomos 02-24-07, 04:49 PM	So after that it could take lvls? How much exp would it need to get it's first lvl? (it currently has 18HD)
Lafing Cat 02-24-07, 06:59 PM	I think Savage Species has LA for awakened constructs. It would need 1000*(HD+LA) exp to gain its next level.
Firestick42 02-25-07, 12:04 AM	There's a feat in Dragon Magazine that let's the crafter add intelegence to a construct during creation. It's a flat rate of 8,000gp and doesn't grant very much, but it would be more than enough to get class levels.
cwslyclgh 02-25-07, 12:24 AM	No, the golem is a construct, not an item, and thus a creature, thus unable to be enhanced to be an intelligent item.of course constructs are created with an ITEM CREATION FEAT (Craft Construct).... so your argument falls a little short in that regard... there is also the fact that intelligent items are considered construts anyway according to the SRD (and the DMG) Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs. using the fact that construstc are created using an item creation feat, and the fact that intelligent items are to be treated as constructs anyway, I have little problem allowing the crafting of intelligent constructs in my game... and do not see anyplace in the RAW that clearly contradicts that notion.
NerdNumber1 02-25-07, 04:03 PM	Make an inteligent item (I suggest a rust gaunlet). Order the golem to give in to the items dominating effect. Give the golem the item and have it dominate the golem. There you go, an inteligent golem (more or less). To reiforce the effect you can put the item inside the golem or strap it on. I have done something similiar in Gareth's Arena. Edit: To learn enough to gain a class level, I think that the inteligent object will need several years to learn how to work his new body. Remember, your PCs have had their entire lives up to adult-hood to practice moving their bodies.
Senko 02-25-07, 08:33 PM	Hmmmm I suddenly have the image of an epic mage whoes tower is guarded by intelligent adamantine and mithril golems (1 of each on either side of the door for colour co-ordination) with 20 levels of fighter and wizard each.
Arniha 02-25-07, 11:07 PM	Hmmmm I suddenly have the image of an epic mage whoes tower is guarded by intelligent adamantine and mithril golems (1 of each on either side of the door for colour co-ordination) with 20 levels of fighter and wizard each. If you're an epic level mage, do you really guards. I dunno, but i've only seen two epic level mages play, the first was a 123rd level necromancer, chaotic evil, whom whiped out entire cities with cantrips. His tower was guarded by the fact that everyone was too scared to go near it. The second didn't really need guards because his castle was a floating enclave. That and he was the tyrant ruler of the continent it was floating over.
NerdNumber1 02-25-07, 11:20 PM	If you're an epic level mage, do you really guards. I dunno, but i've only seen two epic level mages play, the first was a 123rd level necromancer, chaotic evil, whom whiped out entire cities with cantrips. His tower was guarded by the fact that everyone was too scared to go near it. The second didn't really need guards because his castle was a floating enclave. That and he was the tyrant ruler of the continent it was floating over. Gaurds help you screen out door-to-door salesmen and other annoyances. Also, golem guards are alot cooler than garden gnomes as lawn ornaments and anyone who sees such guards would be impressed.
Senko 02-25-07, 11:25 PM	Not to mention that as an epic level mage (I was thinking mid 20's not mid hundreds by the way) you'll have concerns that may take you out of the plane for years or centuries at a time and its a pain to come back and find some young upstarts have walked in and browsed your library, drunk your ale and urinated in the herbs. Remember not every high level character wants to rule countries or be widely known. I myself would use my powers to claim a small plot of land and let the rest of the world go about its business, in fact I'd probably only stop by home every 500 years or so to rest and relax for a 50 year vacation.
ninja1 02-26-07, 03:26 PM	I'm not sure if there is a Level Adjustment (LA). Savage Species should say. However, I do know that Effective Character Level (ECL) includes LA, HD, and class levels. So, to get to level 1, the newly awakened construct would need enough xp to rise from his current ECL to his new ECL. For a moment, let's assume that the LA is zero (I doubt it, but let's hypothesize). The hypothetical guy would have a starting ECL of 18 (LA 0 + HD 18 + level 0). The next target is level 1 in a character class, which brings the ECL up to 19 (LA 0 + HD 18 + level 1). To get to ECL 19 requires the xp needed to get to 19th level, and that is just to obtain the 1st class level. 2nd level brings you to ECL 20 and requires the xp needed to get to 20th level, etc....
Arniha 02-27-07, 01:48 AM	The line, lichs rock gave me another idea. Couldn't you in fact build a clockwork body, then use a phylactery to remove your soul, then use a wish to switch bodies into that new clockwork body?
Yokomohoyo 02-27-07, 02:01 AM	If you wish your golem to take levels look into the Ebberon Warforge and make them a character with one of those. Just call it a golem instead of a warforge.
Senko 02-27-07, 02:23 AM	Golems have different abilities particularly the mithril and adamantine ones immunity to mind effects and 90% of magic for instance.