Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aspiring_Lichlord 03-10-08, 08:18 PM	my grey matter has supplied me with two spells that could be useful for necromancers raising an army... dunno, some help? =It could be that a spell such as these is already part of canon material, it'd be nice to know so that I don't have to write out the rest of the spells= Sigil of Command Undead -placed upon an corpse's forehead before animation, this arcane/divine mark of power causes the undead to heed the caster's commands to the best of their ability and intelligence. The caster or a bearer of an attuned Mark of Control Undead cast by the same caster may telepathically command a number of sigiled undead equal to their Intelligence score multiplied by two with a single action, up to twice that number with a full action, and up to half that number may be commanded with a free action once per round; the maximum number of undead that can be controlled each round is equal to four times the caster/creature's intelligence score (thus a free action and full round action cannot be used together) Lesser Mark of Control Undead -placed upon the forehead of any creature or character, even those that are incoporeal (it's a glowing mark of power, go figure) allows them to control any undead with a Sigil of Command Undead placed by the same caster and attuned to that specific mark. Attuning a sigil takes two minutes and requires the sigil being attuned to be within 30ft at the time of casting or attunement; multiple sigils may be attuned as the spell is being cast, lengthening the casting time to one minute. Attuned sigils may still be controled by the caster. Greater Mark of Control Undead -as Lesser Mark of Control Undead; in addition to being able to control any undead with Sigils of Command Undead attuned to it up to three Marks of Control Undead (Lesser and/or Greater) may be attuned to a Greater Mark of Control Undead, allowing the bearer of a Greater Mark of Control Undead to telepathically communicate with the attuned (Lesser/Greater) Marks of Control Undead, and if the bearers of the attuned marks should die or be destroyed all Sigils of Command Undead attuned to those Marks become attuned that Greater Mark, as well as any other Marks attuned to any attuned Greater Marks. =Casting Time: 2 Minutes (this includes attuning any Marks of Control Undead and/or Sigils of Command Undead) Sigil of Command Undead/Mark of Control Undead, Lesser/Mark of Control Undead, Greater =Enchantment =Level: Clr?, Sor/Wiz?, ???? =Components: V, S, M, AF/DF =Duration: Permanent =Casting Time: 2 rounds (sigils/marks must be applied before casting the spell, taking 1 minute each) =Range: Sigil/Mark Bearer's (Int score x 4)ft. emanation. =Target: Up to twelve undead creatures/corpses to be animated touched =Saving throw: Will allows spell resistance (a mark/sigil of command/control undead that is negated causes the sigil/mark to burn away, dealing a number of dice equal to the caster's level and hit dice, the type if die used is the majority type if the caster posseses multiple types; animated undead (skeletons and zombies) have no "will" and cannot resist a Sigil of Control Undead) =Spell Resistance: No =Material Components= -1 pint of Blood and Desicated Flesh per creature/body harvested from a creature with any Necromantic spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities, mixed with silver/onyx powder into ink. -One pound of powder per creature/body to recieve the marks/sigils containing equal parts silver and onyx mixed into ink with the above blood and flesh, then applied to the forehead of the creatures/bodies to recieve the spell. -A piece of the caster's flesh to seal the mark to the caster which must be fresh at the time of application and may be used over multiple castings of these spells provided it has not begun to rot. (to remove a piece of flesh from a living body for this spell requires a dagger or similar blade-like weapon of tiny size washed in unholy water to deal 4~6 damage dealt by the caster himself; undead flesh less than three days old may also be used).
groveborn 03-11-08, 12:59 AM	There is a limit on how many HD of undead anyone person can command at once. This would create a work around that doesn't follow the rules. Do this instead: Create Greater Undead, as many as you may command at once. Have THEM create lesser undead to the maximum that they can command. Have some be generals, and command other greater undead, who also create lesser undead. You can also awaken them, using the Awaken Undead spell, making weaker, lower level creatures that can command other undead. Think sergeants.
Beckettvampire 03-11-08, 01:27 AM	I tried this once. I did everything I could to get as many minoins as I could taking feats that multiplied the undead I could control and realized it was so dumb. Most of the undead are pretty worthless in combat, than you have to wait, and make everyone else wait for almost every one of them to always miss, than they die in a hit or two, or a Cleric wipes them out in a few rounds that your army is frozen and you just wasted half your treasure on now useless black onyx gems now dust. It was the worst concept I ever tried. It's ok for villians you fight because it's not every single battle, but unless your characters over all goal is to raid little tiny thorps and have your army run from anyone that looks like they can actually use a sword or mace, get ready for a very slow, boring, worthless game.
PhaedrusXY 03-11-08, 02:09 AM	The 2nd level wizard spell Command Undead lets you automatically control a non-intelligent undead (no hit die limit) for 1 day per level. A 20th level wizard with a few Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend would control an undead for 40 days per casting, and he can cast a crap-ton of 2nd level spells (fill higher level slots with them, get a Ring of Wizardry 2, etc). Let's say arbitrarily that he can cast 20 such spells per day (it could easily be more). That's 40x20=800 undead he can control. He could use the Chain Spell feat to hit 20 per casting, which should increase his limit to a few thousand I think. Dragons skeletons and zombies made with the draconomicon rules are not capped at 20 HD like other things made with Animate Dead. The duration for turning a lizard corpse into a dragon corpse with Polymorph Any Object should be permanent. :D There are ways to get around the onyx requirement for Animate Dead (Pale Master 1, Fell Animate, etc). There is also a 9th level spell that animates a bunch of undead at once and only costs 100 gp per casting (I forget the name). So, you can have an army of undead dragons of 40 hit dice each (or whatever the max is) for free, if you have enough time to make the corpses. Chaining the Polymorph Any Objects to turn lizard corpses into dragon corpses would speed things up considerably. A wiz6/pale master 4/incantatrix 10 would be able to pull all of this off by himself (it would help if he did it in a Desecrated area with a permanent evil shrine, though :P ). Below is an old character of mine from a contest that could also control thousands of HD of undead. I used a level 15 or 16 version as an NPC once. She was fun. :D Rhea of the Coos (http://www.thedarktower.net/wiki/Main/RheaOfTheCoos) Race: Human Classes: Cleric3/Wizard(Necromancer)3/TrueNecromancer14 Description: Rhea commands a fearless, tireless army that will obey any command from her, even if it means their certain destruction. What else could a commander wish for? (up to 3858 hit dice of Undead, not counting followers and her cohort) Character Sheet: (note: her physical stats shouldn't matter most of the time, as she will be possessing one of her undead via Magic Jar at all times if possible. See the Tactics section for details.) Hit Dice: HD 3d8+3d4+14d6+60, Hit Points 133 (Avg) Initiative: -1 Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares) Armor Class: AC 15 w/o buffs Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+8 Attack: Full Attack: Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Horrid Wilting, Energy Drain, and Wail of the Banshee each 1xday at Caster Level 24 Caster Levels: wiz19, clr19, +4 Necromancy and +4 with Karma Bead. Save DCs are 20+level Arcane, 19+level Divine, and +1 for Necromancy Saves: Fort +16, Refl +9, Will +24 Abilities: Str 8, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 18 Skills: I'm not going to bother. She has plenty of skill points, as Int is her main stat. Feats: Necromantic Presence, Necromantic Might, Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric, Corpsecrafter, Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard, Spell Focus: Necromancy, Destruction Retribution, Undead Leadership Alignment: Neutral Evil Starting Ability Scores: Str 8, Con 12, Dex 8, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 16 Final Ability Scores: Str 8, Con 16 (12+1Leveling+2Gutworm+2Amulet-1SoulTick), Dex 8, Int 30 (16+6item+5tome+3Leveling), Wis 28 (16+6item+5tome+1Leveling), Cha 22 (16+6item) Progression: 1 Cleric 1; Spell Focus: Necromancy, Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric (h) 3: Cleric 3; Corpsecrafter 4 Wizard 1; Scribe Scroll (b) 6 Wiz 3; Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard 7 True Necro 1 9 TN 3; Necromantic Presence 12 TN 6; Necromantic Might 15 TN 9; Destruction Retribution 18 TN 12 Undead Leadership 20 TN 14 Fiendish Symbionts: Fiendish Familiar, Soul Tick, Gutworm Magic Items: The Lich King's Scepter is a piece of obsidian, crafted to look like a skeletal forearm which is grasping a skull with rubies for eyes. It functions as a Rod of Undead Mastery (doubles HD of controlled undead (via spells, not rebuked), 10000) with abilities of a Scepter of the Netherworld (+3 to level for Rebuking, +13500 gold) and Night Stick (+4 rebuke attempts per day, +11250 gold) added. It is rumored that if it is combined with other artifacts of similiar name, more properties will be unlocked. (34750 total) Strand of Prayer Beads (Karma, Smiting, Healing) (25k); Monk's Belt (13000), Amulet of Health +2 (4000). Belt, Scepter, and Prayer Beads have Dramij's Instant Summons and Nystal's Magic Aura cast on them. Portable Hole (20000)(can hold about 20 medium sized bodies, if they're stacked like cordwood ;) ). Permanent Magic Effects: Major Resistance (+4 saves, 1000XP), Blindsight (30ft., 1500XP), Symbol of Weakness on one skeletal giant's armor (3500XP). She either paid someone to cast Permanency for these, or had her cohort to do it (whichever is legal. I don't feel like doing the math to reduce her by one level) Money: I may go back and figure out her expenses in detail, but then again... I might not. I didn't come close to spending all of the 760,000 on her. So for now I'll just say the rest was used for onyx to animate all these undead. ;) She was originally designed as an NPC, anyway, and so wouldn't have that much direct wealth. Special abilities: -Max HD of Animated Undead controlled: Directly: 414 cleric, 184 Wizard (598 combined). This is including using General of Undeath to add 10HD/level for cleric, and the Rod of Undead Mastery for both Wizard and Cleric levels. Indirectly: 3260 (see followers section) -Rebuking: 12 times per day, level for rebuking purposes is 24 -Horrid Wilting 1xday at CL 24 (Save DC 23?) -Major Zone of Desecration (140 foot radius, factored into Undead bonuses below) -Create Undead 2xday (CL 24), Create Greater Undead 2xday (CL 24) -Caster level: wiz19, clr19, +4 Necromancy and +4 with Karma Bead. Save DCs are 20+level Arcane, 19+level Divine, and +1 for Necromancy -Soul Tick: All Negative Energy spells are automatically Empowered, but she takes a -1 Con penalty. Also is constantly protected by Protection from Good (or Chaos) at CL 12. Must make Spellcraft check to cast Positive Energy spell (DC 15+lvl). -Fiendish Familiar: Ability scores are 2 higher for bonus spells. Gains 1 spell known per level. -Gutworm: +2 inherent Con, Rage at Will, Neutralize Poison 1/day -Undead Created by her and in her presence gain: +3 hp/HD (4 at shrine), +4 Str, +3 attack and saves, +1 damage, +4 Turn Resistance, and Turning attempts take a -3 Profane penalty on the Cha check. They also blow up when they are destroyed, dealing 1d6 + 1d6/2HD negative energy in a 10' burst. Raven Familiar- HP 61 Spells: Wizard Spellbook (Enchantment and Abjuration prohibited): Prepared Underlined DC = 20+level (+1 Necromancy) 0- (4) Detect Magic, Read Magic, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, (and all others) 1-(7)+1 Mage Armor, Magic Missle*2, Chill Touch, Obscuring Mist, Identify, Detect Undead, Tenser's Floating Disk, Disguise Self, Negative Energy Ray, Nystal's Magic Aura, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, True Strike 2-(7)+1 Mirror Image, Command Undead, Ghoul Glyph, Lion's Charge, Invisibility, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility 3-(7)+1 Improved Mage Armor*2, Spirit Servant (custom), Fly, Haste, Displacement, Slow, Shrink Item 4-(6)+1 Evard's Black Tentacles, Superior Darkvision, Polymorph, Fear, Solid Fog, Enervation, Dimension Door 5-(6)+1 Cloudkill, Improved Blink, Kiss of the Vampire, Fabricate, Permanency, Magic Jar, Cone of Cold, Teleport 6-(5) Shadow Walk*2, Contingency, Disintegrate*2, Animate Dread Warrior, Ghoul Gauntlet, Wall of Iron 7-(4) Waves of Exhaustion, Reverse Gravity, Symbol of Weakness, Drawmij's Instant Summons, Forcecage, Mass Invisibility 8-(2) Polymorph Any Object, Clone, Horrid Wilting*2 Scrolls: Waves of Fatigue (using at attack), Teleport (familiar has), Magic Jar (using before attack), 2xSpirit Servant (custom, using before attack), Solid Fog (may use at attack), Superior Darkvision (using before attack). Shrink Item (using before attack) Prepared Cleric spells: DC = 19+level (+1 Necromancy) 0-6 Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic, Mending, Cure Minor Woundsx2 1-8+1 Chill of the Grave (D, 63LM, 4d10 cold ray, close), Sanctuary, 3xShield of Faith, Deathwatch, Command, Cure Light Wounds 2-8+1 Death Knell (D) Make Whole, Prayer, Hold Personx2, Silence, Darkness, Sound Burst 3-7+1 Animate Dead (D) Invisibility Purge, Protection from Positive Energy, Meld into Stone, Protection from Energy, Blindness/Deafness, Summon Undead 3 4-6+1 Wither Limb (D) Dimensional Anchor, 2xSummon Undead 4, Freedom of Movement 5-6+1 Slay Living (D) 2xSpell Resistance, True Seeing 6-5+1 Revive Undead(D) Greater Dispel Magic, Antilife Shell, Harm*2, Blade Barrier 7-3+1 Avasculate (D), Greater Consumptive Field, Destruction, Greater Scrying 8-2+1 Avascular Mass (D), Unholy Aura, Discern Location Tactics: Pre-attack: 1) Use Shadow Walk to transport large amounts of undead to the Border Shadow at the location of the attack. She can take 19 other creatures with her and 20 ghouls will fit into her portable hole, along with the swarms. The dread warrior is carrying the portable hole. 2) When they get there, she will cast Meld with Stone on her familiar. She then casts Magic Jar, and possesses a ghoul. Next she casts Shrink Item on her lifeless body, which her familiar picks up. The familiar then melds into a 1 ft. diameter stone from one of the giant's packs. The zombie dragon takes this stone. 3) She casts all the buffs listed below and they all exit Shadow Plane. The Undead all attack immediately, with the Fomorians trying to smash down the any pallidades or keep doors. The dragon drops the stone with her familiar and body in it at the edge of the battlefield, and he and the Dread Knight fly up into the air. The Dread Knight fires his bow and watches for anyone flying out of the keep. 3) All of the undead will have spell component pouches and cheap holy symbols, and will be instructed not to resist her if she tries to possess them. Attack: 1) She plans to open up with Evard's Black Tentacles (grapple check 23, 1d6+4dmg, 1/2 movement) and Waves of Fatigue (-6Str&Dex, 1/2 movement). Then hit them with a Slow spell (Will DC 18 or partial actions, 1/2 movement, -1att, AC, Ref). The huge undead Snatch enemies and throw them into the Evard's area and use their Snatch feat on attacks of opportunity to keep them from leaving. They should be able to beat the Evard's grapple checks if they get caught in it. The undead swarms also move in to feast upon those trapped by the tentacles. 2) Next she and her cohort start dumping Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, and Horrid Wilting (Sp) around/on the trapped enemies. The skeletons are immune to Cone of Cold and Cloudkill. The ghouls are cannon fodder, and their deaths will serve to heal the greater undead via Destruction Retribution. 3) Use Ray of Enfeeblement to try and incapacitate any spellcasters (hopefully they already lost 6 str from Waves of Fatigue). Hit them with an Enervation, too, to drain off spells and weaken saves. Then follow up with a Disintegrate once their saves are weakened. 4) The ghouls will be spread out, attacking anyone who manages to get out of or avoid the Evard's death trap. 5) The dread warrior will be riding the zombie dragon, and they will attack anyone who flies up out of the combat area, and will especially go after spellcasters, as the dread warrior has Silence cast on him. 6) If she feels like she needs cover, she'll cast Silent Image and create an image of a Prismatic Sphere around her. Buffs cast before exiting shadow: Shield of Faith on hydra, dragon, and dread warrior. Improved Mage Armor on hydra, Mage Armor on dragon. Silence, Freedom of Movement, and Spell Resistance on dread warrior. Mass Invisibility on all of them. On "her": Contingency (if someone begins to cast a Greater Dispel Magic at her, she Dimension Doors straight up to max range), Deathwatch, Protection from Positive Energy, Spell Resistance, True Seeing, Mirror Image, Fly. She has paid to have a Contingent Spell placed on her, also. It is the same as her own Contingency, but the trigger is for Mordenkainen's Disjunction instead of Greater Dispel Magic. Last ones to cast: Antilife Shell, Displacement, Improved Blink, and Haste. Cohort, Followers, and Other Undead: All 163 of her Followers are Necropolitan Wizards, and they all can cast Control Undead. The 1st level ones have the Precocious Apprentice feat, which allows them to cast one second level spell per day. This greatly expands the amount of Hit Dice of undead under her indirect control. Non-intelligent undead get no save, and the spell lasts 1day per level and has no hit die cap on what it can affect. So she can create large amounts of uncontrolled undead via Animate Dead, and her followers can take control of them for her. Since the Animate Dead spell seems to be limited to creating creatures with 20 HD or less (see the zombie and skeleton templates), that means that in total her followers can theoretically add 3260 HD of undead to her indirect control. Of course, due to many factors, the number actually controlled in this manner at a given time will be signifigantly less than this. But even half that amount is a fairly impressive army of undead. Her cohort is a Necropolitan Incantatrix with the following feats: Chain Spell, Lord of the Uttercold, and Black Lore of Moil. Both he and his master also have Soul Ticks, which automatically Empowers any Negative Energy spells they cast. So if he casts a Maximized Cone of Cold, it will do half Negative Energy damage via Lord of the Uttercold, and do 4d6 more Negative Energy damage via Black Lore of Moil, and all of the damage will be Empowered via the Soul Tick. Most of her undead will be skeletons, which are immune to cold and healed by negative energy. Her army of undead definitely should be mostly made up of skeletal hydras and giants. Hulking Corpses would make the best undead for her followers to take control of via Command Undead, but I don't know how she could create them. High hit die skeletons would also work almost as well. She would have at least one zombie dragon for a mount for her cohort. All of these undead would be awakened via Awaken Undead, which should give them feats and skills appropriate for their hit dice. Books Used: Libris Mortis, Fiend Folio, Complete Arcane, Player's Guide to Faerun.
Soltares 03-11-08, 10:41 AM	Do the spellstitching rules provide for stitching 4th level spells? If so, one could stitch undead already commanded with Animate Dead as an SLA, and they could relay your orders to their own platoons, while you play Generalissimo, sitting back in your animated lawnchair-made-of-bones and sipping a latte. Various 3rd party sources have rituals (Relics & Rituals) or specific spells (Secret College of Necromancy) that let one control armies of undead. I'm sure the Black Cauldron of Arawn has been written up for 3E by *someone* by now...
Goof 03-11-08, 05:44 PM	There is a limit on how many HD of undead anyone person can command at once. This would create a work around that doesn't follow the rules. I thought there was a limit, but in the spell it says Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit) Which suggests you can command more than what you can create with a single casting. There are also spells/abilities that let you create more. Create undead doesn't show any limit, and I can't find a limit on how many can be controlled.
PhaedrusXY 03-12-08, 02:02 AM	Create undead doesn't show any limit, and I can't find a limit on how many can be controlled.You don't automatically control undead made with that spell. You have to use other means (Rebuking, etc) if you want to control them.
Red_Wizard 03-12-08, 11:08 AM	I thought there was a limit, but in the spell it says Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit) Which suggests you can command more than what you can create with a single casting. There are also spells/abilities that let you create more. The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) Create undead doesn't show any limit, and I can't find a limit on how many can be controlled. Created undead are not automatically under the control of their animator. If you are capable of commanding undead, you may attempt to command the undead creature as it forms. Targets:Up to 2 HD/level of undead creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart Sometimes reading the entire spell helps. ;) -RW
katarl 03-12-08, 06:02 PM	An idea i like is the 'control crystal', which controls a mindless undead of any level for 6000 gold. 2(spell level)x3(minimum caster level)x2000 (continuous)x0.5(discount for lasting more than 24hrs). It isn't practical for your foottroops, but can save your hit die limit by putting them in zombie gray renders.
Veradamos 03-13-08, 12:22 PM	The following trick used by a player really screwed up a campaign I once ran... but it was funny as heck: Player commanded several Wights, which were 'smuggled' into the city. Keeping in mind that something like 90% of an average city populous are not useful in combat, the wights spent several weeks targeting commoners, merchants and other poor wretches. Their attacks created hundreds of wight spawn, all of which were controlled by their creators, which in turn were controlled by the player. As for the cities' response, by the time anything was figured out he had a majority of the city either converted or fleeing for their lives. as for the city guard or other less useless defenders, they quickly were overcome by swarms of wight spawn.
Aspiring_Lichlord 03-13-08, 04:47 PM	I tried this once. I did everything I could to get as many minoins as I could taking feats that multiplied the undead I could control and realized it was so dumb. Most of the undead are pretty worthless in combat, than you have to wait, and make everyone else wait for almost every one of them to always miss, than they die in a hit or two, or a Cleric wipes them out in a few rounds that your army is frozen and you just wasted half your treasure on now useless black onyx gems now dust. It was the worst concept I ever tried. It's ok for villians you fight because it's not every single battle, but unless your characters over all goal is to raid little tiny thorps and have your army run from anyone that looks like they can actually use a sword or mace, get ready for a very slow, boring, worthless game. I would've done it diferently, BESM rules provide for epic-encounters, the rules are different (and equally complex) from character scale and I no longer have the book, so I was figuring of a squad/formation/regiment of skeletons/skeleton riders/wights would act at the same time and move so that they remain together ("mass movement"); which should allow for larger numbers with little to no time lag because of said numbers as for the spells, I'm going to let my DM decide yay or nay on the issue, but perhaps the Sigils of Control Undead have to be attuned to either the caster or a specific Mark of Command Undead, the process being performed upon/during casting (no extra time) or after casting, taking a few minutes or so which would suggest higher ranks would require a "Greater Mark of Command Undead" allowing the bearer to command several "groups" of sigils, the Greater Mark of Command Undead being attuned to up to three ("Lesser" or Greater) Marks of Command Undead. The main function of the sigils and marks would be to allow intelligent undead to command lesser undead, like skeletons and zombies, who have little or no intelligence. These are probably epic spells. ED: Of course it could be used to command a vast horde of undead, a limit could be placed that a single caster/mark-bearer can control up to double their intelligence score in Sigiled undead per action of telepathic direction, and may direct a number of Sigiled undead equal to their intelligence score with each free action of telepathic direction (a free "direct undead" action may not be taken if two standard "direct undead" actions are being taken and only one free "direct undead" action may be taken each round). So a wight (Int 15) could direct 30-45 undead and still make a standard action, or up to 15 undead and act normally, and 46-60 undead as a full round action. And to prevent the commanders from camping, put a... control emanation of (Int score x 4)ft. Meaning the above wight can control any sigiled undead attuned to it as long as they are within 60ft. of itself. and... updated