annihilation & cube of force [Archive] - Wizards Community

annihilation & cube of force [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fidjlin
02-05-05, 01:56 AM If characters are protected by a cube of force ( with all faces on )

Keeps out gases, wind, etc.
Keeps out nonliving matter
Keeps out living matter
Keeps out magic
Keeps out all things

Characters can be annihilated ?
Talchar
02-05-05, 03:18 AM In a word, yes

Assuming you are refering to a sphere of Annihilation. Cube of Force can keep out all things. A Sphere of Annihilation is nothing. If you could use a cube of force to block and sphere, then you could use a Wall of force to contain it... Ottuke's sphere to move it around and so on. Its kinda like using a normal stone building to trap a etheral creature, the wall and the creature simply don't interact with each other.
Mirror-Image
02-05-05, 11:40 AM sorry for being a little off topic but i have a question i would like to ask.

the cube can use the function "keeps out magic".
does it mean:
1) magic can't enter but you can cast out of the cube
2) it "blocks" magic so you can't cast in and can't cast out

im under the impression that you can cast out of the cube as the rules are written but i'm not sure if thats right ...
Talchar
02-05-05, 11:32 PM Look at the Wall of Force spell. A cube blocks line of effect, so any spell that has a line of effect cannot pass through a cube of force. You cannot cast spells out of cube of force.
Mirror-Image
02-06-05, 08:56 AM my doubts are:
1)
you have a friend in a cube of foce while "keeping out" living matter. will he be able to leave the cube of force ?
- i thought yes

2)
if you "keep out living matter" and "keep out non living matter", you have simulated a wall of force. would you then say that the line of effect is blocked cause thats what a cube of force would do, or do you say you can cast spells out of it ?
- i think you can cast spells out of it

3)
the combination of 1) and 2) leads to the assumtion that if you "keep out magic" you can still cast out of the cube (like a globe of invulnarability)

4)
the semantic
so you say it should better read "blocks" magic and the "keeps out" / "hedge out " wording is incorrect.

but your interpretation leads to a nice strategy:
use the cube to trap the enemies !

since the cube with the function "keep out living matter" which should mean blocks living matter you move to 1 enemy activate the cube and can fight him without interferenz from all other enemies. and your victim can't even leave the cube hrhr.
then after you finish him you move to the next opponent and trap/isolate him too.

does anyone sees a problem with that ?
murte
02-06-05, 09:49 AM Last post first:

Besides the fact that you have to activate the cube of force, thus be holding it, no. Just make sure you can beat them one on one.

First post: Sphere acts like Disintigrate as far as Wall of Force is concerned.

And Cube of Force is not a Wall of Force, it is unidirectional in its properties.
Talchar
02-07-05, 12:27 AM Last post first:

Besides the fact that you have to activate the cube of force, thus be holding it, no. Just make sure you can beat them one on one.

First post: Sphere acts like Disintigrate as far as Wall of Force is concerned.

And Cube of Force is not a Wall of Force, it is unidirectional in its properties.

Cube of force is not unidirectional, but it could be written better. Perhapse there is some errata on the device. If there is please let me know where it is.

SRD
When the cube of force is active, attacks dealing more than 30 points of damage drain 1 charge for every 10 points of damage beyond 30 that they deal. Spells that affect the integrity of the screen also drain extra charges. These spells (given in the list below) cannot be cast into or out of the cube:

While your view on the interaction with a sphere makes a certain amount of sense, I suspect it is in error, though I would not bet on it.
murte
02-07-05, 08:20 AM Actually it concurs with what I said. All other spells not on the list can be cast out of, but not into a Cube of Force.

I assumed that everyone would have understood the clarity of the text.
Talchar
02-07-05, 08:23 PM Ah well,

To be honest, I have not really looked into a cube of force for years. We have allways played them as walls of force. (AD&D) Conceptually, I think your position is in error, but legalistically, I can see you point.

The idea of item providing immunity while allowing you free rein on casting spells, goes against my sense of balance. My interpretation, is that the spells listed, causes structual damage to the cube, thus drain charges & all other spells interact with the cube walls as if it was a wall of force.
Mirror-Image
02-08-05, 10:55 AM Actually it concurs with what I said. All other spells not on the list can be cast out of, but not into a Cube of Force.

I assumed that everyone would have understood the clarity of the text.

just to get you right.
So if you hedge out living matter your comerade (who stood beside you as you activated the function) may leave the sphere.
And if you hedge out magic you can cast spells out of the cube ( except the ones that are listet ).

correct ?
Talchar
02-09-05, 04:13 AM You should go with what seems right to you. I sat down and looked at the new version of cube of force, the 3.5 version, added some verbage, that is leading to Mirror-'s interpretation that greatly increases the power of the item.

MIrror-Image's interpretation is IMO wrong. His interpretation, is strictly, litteral in application, but incorrect in context. His statement of a Cube of Force being unidirectional is based on the absense of statement, stating that it blocks outgoing spellls and the line entry concerning the charge cost of particular spellls. I believe this line of logic is incorrect.

A cube of force is composed functionally of two components.

A] Is a variable force screen that draws charges based on the intensity of the screen.
B] A field "skeleton" that supports the varible force screen. To maintain the "skeleton" in the presense of certain spells require additional charges.

The force screen created is not a unidirectional defense screen. The screen will block in both directions whatever effect the screen is set against. Thus, all spells are blocked if options 4 or 5 is selected. Settings one through five, will block the specific spells listed & those spells will drain the corresponding charge cost.

Note: That the 3.5 cube force, has reduced the list of spells that affect the field. I believe this reduction is due to the incorporation the damage / charge cost application. The elimination of the phase door & passwall applications was due to the addition of focewall ability to block etheral travel.

If you choose to follow Mirror-Image's interpretation: You would litterally, be cable to hit option 5, and go forth and slaughter everything without incurring the risk of harm in all but the most unique conditions. His equivillance of a Sphere and the Disintigrate, I believe is based on the spell descriptin of a wall force. If his logic holds true, then you have a cube of force that can resist a Mord's Disjuction attack. (thus putting the cube of force into the relm of an artifact)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fidjlin 02-05-05, 01:56 AM	If characters are protected by a cube of force ( with all faces on ) Keeps out gases, wind, etc. Keeps out nonliving matter Keeps out living matter Keeps out magic Keeps out all things Characters can be annihilated ?
Talchar 02-05-05, 03:18 AM	In a word, yes Assuming you are refering to a sphere of Annihilation. Cube of Force can keep out all things. A Sphere of Annihilation is nothing. If you could use a cube of force to block and sphere, then you could use a Wall of force to contain it... Ottuke's sphere to move it around and so on. Its kinda like using a normal stone building to trap a etheral creature, the wall and the creature simply don't interact with each other.
Mirror-Image 02-05-05, 11:40 AM	sorry for being a little off topic but i have a question i would like to ask. the cube can use the function "keeps out magic". does it mean: 1) magic can't enter but you can cast out of the cube 2) it "blocks" magic so you can't cast in and can't cast out im under the impression that you can cast out of the cube as the rules are written but i'm not sure if thats right ...
Talchar 02-05-05, 11:32 PM	Look at the Wall of Force spell. A cube blocks line of effect, so any spell that has a line of effect cannot pass through a cube of force. You cannot cast spells out of cube of force.
Mirror-Image 02-06-05, 08:56 AM	my doubts are: 1) you have a friend in a cube of foce while "keeping out" living matter. will he be able to leave the cube of force ? - i thought yes 2) if you "keep out living matter" and "keep out non living matter", you have simulated a wall of force. would you then say that the line of effect is blocked cause thats what a cube of force would do, or do you say you can cast spells out of it ? - i think you can cast spells out of it 3) the combination of 1) and 2) leads to the assumtion that if you "keep out magic" you can still cast out of the cube (like a globe of invulnarability) 4) the semantic so you say it should better read "blocks" magic and the "keeps out" / "hedge out " wording is incorrect. but your interpretation leads to a nice strategy: use the cube to trap the enemies ! since the cube with the function "keep out living matter" which should mean blocks living matter you move to 1 enemy activate the cube and can fight him without interferenz from all other enemies. and your victim can't even leave the cube hrhr. then after you finish him you move to the next opponent and trap/isolate him too. does anyone sees a problem with that ?
murte 02-06-05, 09:49 AM	Last post first: Besides the fact that you have to activate the cube of force, thus be holding it, no. Just make sure you can beat them one on one. First post: Sphere acts like Disintigrate as far as Wall of Force is concerned. And Cube of Force is not a Wall of Force, it is unidirectional in its properties.
Talchar 02-07-05, 12:27 AM	Last post first: Besides the fact that you have to activate the cube of force, thus be holding it, no. Just make sure you can beat them one on one. First post: Sphere acts like Disintigrate as far as Wall of Force is concerned. And Cube of Force is not a Wall of Force, it is unidirectional in its properties. Cube of force is not unidirectional, but it could be written better. Perhapse there is some errata on the device. If there is please let me know where it is. SRD When the cube of force is active, attacks dealing more than 30 points of damage drain 1 charge for every 10 points of damage beyond 30 that they deal. Spells that affect the integrity of the screen also drain extra charges. These spells (given in the list below) cannot be cast into or out of the cube: While your view on the interaction with a sphere makes a certain amount of sense, I suspect it is in error, though I would not bet on it.
murte 02-07-05, 08:20 AM	Actually it concurs with what I said. All other spells not on the list can be cast out of, but not into a Cube of Force. I assumed that everyone would have understood the clarity of the text.
Talchar 02-07-05, 08:23 PM	Ah well, To be honest, I have not really looked into a cube of force for years. We have allways played them as walls of force. (AD&D) Conceptually, I think your position is in error, but legalistically, I can see you point. The idea of item providing immunity while allowing you free rein on casting spells, goes against my sense of balance. My interpretation, is that the spells listed, causes structual damage to the cube, thus drain charges & all other spells interact with the cube walls as if it was a wall of force.
Mirror-Image 02-08-05, 10:55 AM	Actually it concurs with what I said. All other spells not on the list can be cast out of, but not into a Cube of Force. I assumed that everyone would have understood the clarity of the text. just to get you right. So if you hedge out living matter your comerade (who stood beside you as you activated the function) may leave the sphere. And if you hedge out magic you can cast spells out of the cube ( except the ones that are listet ). correct ?
Talchar 02-09-05, 04:13 AM	You should go with what seems right to you. I sat down and looked at the new version of cube of force, the 3.5 version, added some verbage, that is leading to Mirror-'s interpretation that greatly increases the power of the item. MIrror-Image's interpretation is IMO wrong. His interpretation, is strictly, litteral in application, but incorrect in context. His statement of a Cube of Force being unidirectional is based on the absense of statement, stating that it blocks outgoing spellls and the line entry concerning the charge cost of particular spellls. I believe this line of logic is incorrect. A cube of force is composed functionally of two components. A] Is a variable force screen that draws charges based on the intensity of the screen. B] A field "skeleton" that supports the varible force screen. To maintain the "skeleton" in the presense of certain spells require additional charges. The force screen created is not a unidirectional defense screen. The screen will block in both directions whatever effect the screen is set against. Thus, all spells are blocked if options 4 or 5 is selected. Settings one through five, will block the specific spells listed & those spells will drain the corresponding charge cost. Note: That the 3.5 cube force, has reduced the list of spells that affect the field. I believe this reduction is due to the incorporation the damage / charge cost application. The elimination of the phase door & passwall applications was due to the addition of focewall ability to block etheral travel. If you choose to follow Mirror-Image's interpretation: You would litterally, be cable to hit option 5, and go forth and slaughter everything without incurring the risk of harm in all but the most unique conditions. His equivillance of a Sphere and the Disintigrate, I believe is based on the spell descriptin of a wall force. If his logic holds true, then you have a cube of force that can resist a Mord's Disjuction attack. (thus putting the cube of force into the relm of an artifact)