Another polymorph revision [Archive] - Wizards Community

Another polymorph revision [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jaelis
02-06-06, 10:14 PM I was thinking of trying the following revision of polymorph. In a nutshell, it restricts the forms you can take, but gives you some of the special attacks and qualities of the forms.

I wanted to get opinions on whether any of the allowed forms are abusive, whether there's some sensible forms I left out, and whether any of the granted abilities might be more problematic than I'm realizing.

Thanks for any help.

Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Willing living creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell changes the willing subject into another
form of living creature. The new form can be no
larger than Large and no smaller than Tiny, and the
form cannot have more Hit Dice than your caster
level or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower (to a
maximum of 15 HD at 15th level). Given these
constraints, the new form can be chosen from the
following list (HD in parentheses):

Any normal animal Any dinosaur
Grimlock (2) Ankheg (3)
Hippogriff (3) Centaur (4)
Eagle, giant (4) Ogre (4)
Owl, giant (4) Pegasus (4)
Worg (4) Manticore (6)
Minotaur (6) Sea cat (6)
Troll (6) Griffon (7)
Umber hulk (8) Gray render (10)
Chuul (11) Giant, hill (12)
Sphinx, andro (12)

Only the standard form of the creature may be used;
advanced creatures and creatures with templates are
not possible. The subject retains its orginal creature
type and subtype (if any). If the new form has the
aquatic subtype, the subject acquires that as well.

Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as
if it had rested for a night, though this healing does
not restore temporary ability damage or provide other
benefits of resting. Changing back does not heal the
subject further. If slain, the subject reverts to its
original form, though it remains dead.

The subject acquires some of the physical qualities of
the new form while retaining its own mind. Qualities
acquired include natural size, mundane movement
capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking,
swimming, and flight), natural armor bonus, natural
weapons, racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and
any gross physical features (presence or absence of
wings, number of extremities, and so forth). It looses
any of these qualities of its normal form.

The subject gains the standard Strength, Dexterity,
and Constitution scores of the new form but retains
its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores.
The subject gains any of the following special qualities
or attacks that are possessed by the new form:
attach, amphibious, blindsense, blindsight, constrict,
darkvision, hold breath, immunities due to blindness,
immunity to trip, improved grab, jet, keen scent, leap,
low-light vision, pounce, powerful charge, rake, rend,
scent, spikes, sprint, stench, superior low light vision,
trample, tremorsense, and trip.
The subject gains no other special attacks and qualities
of the new form. It looses all of its own racial abilities,
with the following exceptions:
Human: bonus feat, bonus skill points
Dwarf: weapon familiarity, stonecunning
Elf: weapon proficiency
Gnome: weapon familiarity, save bonus vs. illusions
Half-elf: skill bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information
Half-orc: —
Halfling: save bonus vs. fear
In a similar fashion, the DM may assign abilities retained
by other races.

The subject’s class and level, hit points, alignment,
base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain
the same. The subject keeps any abilities derived from
class levels, though some forms may prevent those
abilities from being used effectively. For instance,
when casting spells the new form must be capable
of speech to use verbal components and must have
limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or
material components.

You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical
qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color)
within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind.
The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as
height, weight, and gender) are also under your control,
but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s
kind. The subject is effectively disguised as an average
member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to
create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise
check.

The subject’s equipment, if any, remains worn or held
by the new form if it is capable of wearing or holding
the item, or else melds into the new form and becomes
nonfunctional. (Note that the size of the equipment
does not change in any case.) When the spell ends,
any objects previously melded into the new form reappear
in the same location on the subject’s body that they
previously occupied and are once again functional. Any
new items worn in the assumed form that can’t be worn
in the subject’s normal form fall off and land at the
subject’s feet. Any part of the body or piece of
equipment that is separated from the whole reverts
to its true form.

For the duration of the polymorph spell, any other
magical effects that alter the size of the subject
are suppressed.

Incorporeal or gaseous creatures cannot be
polymorphed, and a creature that normally has
the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural
form as a standard action.

Material Component: An empty cocoon.
Seeker95
02-06-06, 10:53 PM If it works for your campaign, it's good.

For my game, I make the subject *become* the creature. Straight out of the stat block.
jaelis
02-06-06, 10:59 PM If it works for your campaign, it's good.

For my game, I make the subject *become* the creature. Straight out of the stat block.

I know, but that just doesn't work for me. I can't see using a 4th level spell to become a nymph and pick up a whole day's worth of spells from a 7th level druid. And turning the fighter into a hydra is too much when you have a wizard there to support it.
Seeker95
02-07-06, 10:17 AM I know, but that just doesn't work for me. I can't see using a 4th level spell to become a nymph and pick up a whole day's worth of spells from a 7th level druid. And turning the fighter into a hydra is too much when you have a wizard there to support it.Granted, the DM needs to keep his brain turned on, but the objectors should also keep in mind something called context...

1. How is your nymph going to get those spells you are so afraid of?
The duration of polymorph does not give you time to prepare them.

2. Hydras are huge. How often is there room to become a hydra?
And if there is room for a hydra, there is probably room to avoid a hydra.

Knee jerk objections are common. People like to gripe about polymorph, and like to immediately dismiss someone else's solution -- especially if the solution is as simple as the one I use. Throw in the requirement that the player must prepare stat blocks ahead of time (can't use the Monster Manual to search for a form) and the spell becomes quite managable for me.

Like I said in the first post... if your solution works for you, it's good.
My solution works for me, and requires much less micromanagement headache.
jaelis
02-07-06, 11:02 AM Well, to be fair, I find your idea very appealing. I didn't reject it as a knee jerk reaction.

I hadn't thought of that point about the nymph, though I think it is debatable. If you took the form of a creature with SLA's, are you supposed to assume they have already been used up for the day?

But anyway, it was not one uber broken thing, it was many things that pushed the envelope too far for me.

So as you play it, what forms have your players been using?
Seeker95
02-07-06, 12:39 PM So as you play it, what forms have your players been using?The three players in my 3.5 games that have chosen to use polymorph have gone with pretty standard "push the limits" forms (I require a Knowledge: Monsters check the first time they attempt a new form), including the hydra, the choker and even a quickling.

And here's what they learn...
They *become* the new form. Completely. Straight from the stat block. They keep NOTHING from their character sheet. They keep nothing but fact-based knowledge. No spells. No skills. No feats. No equipment.

And the spell suddenly becomes more tactical in its use. Yes, they learn to take the time to drop or remove equipment they want access to in the new form. But this too becomes a tactic. Do they have time? Do they make time? Do they have room for the new form?

And polymorph gets cast much less than most people describe.

If any of them (only one currently) gets high enough to cast shapechange, it will work the same way.
Just with a higher HD cap.

And I love it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jaelis 02-06-06, 10:14 PM	I was thinking of trying the following revision of polymorph. In a nutshell, it restricts the forms you can take, but gives you some of the special attacks and qualities of the forms. I wanted to get opinions on whether any of the allowed forms are abusive, whether there's some sensible forms I left out, and whether any of the granted abilities might be more problematic than I'm realizing. Thanks for any help. Polymorph Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Willing living creature touched Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell changes the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form can be no larger than Large and no smaller than Tiny, and the form cannot have more Hit Dice than your caster level or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower (to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level). Given these constraints, the new form can be chosen from the following list (HD in parentheses): Any normal animal Any dinosaur Grimlock (2) Ankheg (3) Hippogriff (3) Centaur (4) Eagle, giant (4) Ogre (4) Owl, giant (4) Pegasus (4) Worg (4) Manticore (6) Minotaur (6) Sea cat (6) Troll (6) Griffon (7) Umber hulk (8) Gray render (10) Chuul (11) Giant, hill (12) Sphinx, andro (12) Only the standard form of the creature may be used; advanced creatures and creatures with templates are not possible. The subject retains its orginal creature type and subtype (if any). If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the subject acquires that as well. Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night, though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage or provide other benefits of resting. Changing back does not heal the subject further. If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead. The subject acquires some of the physical qualities of the new form while retaining its own mind. Qualities acquired include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight), natural armor bonus, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical features (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). It looses any of these qualities of its normal form. The subject gains the standard Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. The subject gains any of the following special qualities or attacks that are possessed by the new form: attach, amphibious, blindsense, blindsight, constrict, darkvision, hold breath, immunities due to blindness, immunity to trip, improved grab, jet, keen scent, leap, low-light vision, pounce, powerful charge, rake, rend, scent, spikes, sprint, stench, superior low light vision, trample, tremorsense, and trip. The subject gains no other special attacks and qualities of the new form. It looses all of its own racial abilities, with the following exceptions: Human: bonus feat, bonus skill points Dwarf: weapon familiarity, stonecunning Elf: weapon proficiency Gnome: weapon familiarity, save bonus vs. illusions Half-elf: skill bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information Half-orc: — Halfling: save bonus vs. fear In a similar fashion, the DM may assign abilities retained by other races. The subject’s class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. The subject keeps any abilities derived from class levels, though some forms may prevent those abilities from being used effectively. For instance, when casting spells the new form must be capable of speech to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components. You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. The subject is effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check. The subject’s equipment, if any, remains worn or held by the new form if it is capable of wearing or holding the item, or else melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. (Note that the size of the equipment does not change in any case.) When the spell ends, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on the subject’s body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form that can’t be worn in the subject’s normal form fall off and land at the subject’s feet. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form. For the duration of the polymorph spell, any other magical effects that alter the size of the subject are suppressed. Incorporeal or gaseous creatures cannot be polymorphed, and a creature that normally has the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action. Material Component: An empty cocoon.
Seeker95 02-06-06, 10:53 PM	If it works for your campaign, it's good. For my game, I make the subject become the creature. Straight out of the stat block.
jaelis 02-06-06, 10:59 PM	If it works for your campaign, it's good. For my game, I make the subject become the creature. Straight out of the stat block. I know, but that just doesn't work for me. I can't see using a 4th level spell to become a nymph and pick up a whole day's worth of spells from a 7th level druid. And turning the fighter into a hydra is too much when you have a wizard there to support it.
Seeker95 02-07-06, 10:17 AM	I know, but that just doesn't work for me. I can't see using a 4th level spell to become a nymph and pick up a whole day's worth of spells from a 7th level druid. And turning the fighter into a hydra is too much when you have a wizard there to support it.Granted, the DM needs to keep his brain turned on, but the objectors should also keep in mind something called context... 1. How is your nymph going to get those spells you are so afraid of? The duration of polymorph does not give you time to prepare them. 2. Hydras are huge. How often is there room to become a hydra? And if there is room for a hydra, there is probably room to avoid a hydra. Knee jerk objections are common. People like to gripe about polymorph, and like to immediately dismiss someone else's solution -- especially if the solution is as simple as the one I use. Throw in the requirement that the player must prepare stat blocks ahead of time (can't use the Monster Manual to search for a form) and the spell becomes quite managable for me. Like I said in the first post... if your solution works for you, it's good. My solution works for me, and requires much less micromanagement headache.
jaelis 02-07-06, 11:02 AM	Well, to be fair, I find your idea very appealing. I didn't reject it as a knee jerk reaction. I hadn't thought of that point about the nymph, though I think it is debatable. If you took the form of a creature with SLA's, are you supposed to assume they have already been used up for the day? But anyway, it was not one uber broken thing, it was many things that pushed the envelope too far for me. So as you play it, what forms have your players been using?
Seeker95 02-07-06, 12:39 PM	So as you play it, what forms have your players been using?The three players in my 3.5 games that have chosen to use polymorph have gone with pretty standard "push the limits" forms (I require a Knowledge: Monsters check the first time they attempt a new form), including the hydra, the choker and even a quickling. And here's what they learn... They become the new form. Completely. Straight from the stat block. They keep NOTHING from their character sheet. They keep nothing but fact-based knowledge. No spells. No skills. No feats. No equipment. And the spell suddenly becomes more tactical in its use. Yes, they learn to take the time to drop or remove equipment they want access to in the new form. But this too becomes a tactic. Do they have time? Do they make time? Do they have room for the new form? And polymorph gets cast much less than most people describe. If any of them (only one currently) gets high enough to cast shapechange, it will work the same way. Just with a higher HD cap. And I love it.