Anti Magic Field vs. Iron Heart Surge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anti Magic Field vs. Iron Heart Surge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wraithwin
10-03-06, 06:38 PM Just looking for a little clerification here, as I'm a bit confused myself on this. If there was a post about it already, it escaped me...

Creature A activates antimagic field, and moves into melee with a creature B.

Creature B uses "Iron Heart Surge" technique from Tome of Battle.

Creature B claims that IHS should cancel out AMF, as it's effecting them. But AMS isn't JUST effecting them - It's effecting an area, including the person who just used it.

Now, I'm inclined to rule for the person using AMF instead of the person using IHS (though I love the Tome of Battle stuff), and here's my two biggest examples as to why I think this;

Spellfire: You can absorb any spell that targets/effects you. But if it would effect ANYbody else, you can't absorb it, because you're nolonger the "creature effected" - but merely part of the area.

Magic the Gathering: Weird to toss in here, I know, but bear with me. I came to this one on grounds that Wizards is mostly uniform across the board on their major rulings... Back in the day, "Cannot be the target of Red spells or abilities" was a huge conflict. People argued that "Inferno" and the like that deal damage to everything, wouldn't work on them... because they can't be targeted by Red Spells or Abilities. Wizard's quick answer to this, was simply that it did not TARGET you - it was a global/area effect, and thus anything that based on you being targeted/effected does not work against it.

So... those two thoughts added to the first question... What do you think? Should "Iron Heart Surge" in all it's bad-arsitude overwhelm Antimagic Field, or would the field still hold up? Would it just null it for one round, then resume the next due to continuous effect/duration? I'm stuck with this thought. :)
Wraithwin
10-04-06, 02:32 PM Actually, tag this on to it:

Wouldn't Iron Heart Surge also wipe out any ongoing benefitial spell effects?
It's rather impartial, and says "any" so... all of them, right?

For example, Mage Armor, Blink, Stoneskin, etc etc.
Esponer
10-04-06, 02:46 PM If a martial adept (or someone who gained the ability through the Martial Study feat) uses Iron Heart Surge against an antimagic field, the field immediately ends for all participants. This is supported by a Customer Service ruling.

You choose which spell/effect/condition you wish to end. It does not end everything on you, just one thing that you choose.

Addendum: The spell would end in its entirety, rather than resuming soon afterwards. Also, everything I've said is the RAW last I heard — an errata may be on its way and there may even be conflicting Customer Service statements by now, but they were quite confident about it last I heard. And I don't agree with the power of iron heart surge as it stands.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wraithwin 10-03-06, 06:38 PM	Just looking for a little clerification here, as I'm a bit confused myself on this. If there was a post about it already, it escaped me... Creature A activates antimagic field, and moves into melee with a creature B. Creature B uses "Iron Heart Surge" technique from Tome of Battle. Creature B claims that IHS should cancel out AMF, as it's effecting them. But AMS isn't JUST effecting them - It's effecting an area, including the person who just used it. Now, I'm inclined to rule for the person using AMF instead of the person using IHS (though I love the Tome of Battle stuff), and here's my two biggest examples as to why I think this; Spellfire: You can absorb any spell that targets/effects you. But if it would effect ANYbody else, you can't absorb it, because you're nolonger the "creature effected" - but merely part of the area. Magic the Gathering: Weird to toss in here, I know, but bear with me. I came to this one on grounds that Wizards is mostly uniform across the board on their major rulings... Back in the day, "Cannot be the target of Red spells or abilities" was a huge conflict. People argued that "Inferno" and the like that deal damage to everything, wouldn't work on them... because they can't be targeted by Red Spells or Abilities. Wizard's quick answer to this, was simply that it did not TARGET you - it was a global/area effect, and thus anything that based on you being targeted/effected does not work against it. So... those two thoughts added to the first question... What do you think? Should "Iron Heart Surge" in all it's bad-arsitude overwhelm Antimagic Field, or would the field still hold up? Would it just null it for one round, then resume the next due to continuous effect/duration? I'm stuck with this thought. :)
Wraithwin 10-04-06, 02:32 PM	Actually, tag this on to it: Wouldn't Iron Heart Surge also wipe out any ongoing benefitial spell effects? It's rather impartial, and says "any" so... all of them, right? For example, Mage Armor, Blink, Stoneskin, etc etc.
Esponer 10-04-06, 02:46 PM	If a martial adept (or someone who gained the ability through the Martial Study feat) uses Iron Heart Surge against an antimagic field, the field immediately ends for all participants. This is supported by a Customer Service ruling. You choose which spell/effect/condition you wish to end. It does not end everything on you, just one thing that you choose. Addendum: The spell would end in its entirety, rather than resuming soon afterwards. Also, everything I've said is the RAW last I heard — an errata may be on its way and there may even be conflicting Customer Service statements by now, but they were quite confident about it last I heard. And I don't agree with the power of iron heart surge as it stands.