Antilife shell too strong? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Antilife shell too strong? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bort333
05-22-05, 02:05 AM :confused: Wow... just wow... this spell seems wrong.

"Antilife Shell
Abjuration
Level: Animal 6, Clr 6, Drd 6
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: 10 ft.
Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
You bring into being a mobile, hemispherical energy field that prevents the entrance of most types of living creatures.
The effect hedges out animals, aberrations, dragons, fey, giants, humanoids, magical beasts, monstrous humanoids, oozes, plants, and vermin, but not constructs, elementals, outsiders, or undead.
This spell may be used only defensively, not aggressively. Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier.
"

I'm just looking at a cleric/druid just saying... muahhaha nothing can hit me in meele combat... 10 min a level? Talk about being the Kings of the battle field.

Am I reading this right? If your a human, with a meele weapon there is no way to get past this thing other then dispel magic?

This seems broken to me.
was_fired
05-22-05, 02:14 AM There are other ways to bypass it.

1. Ranged Weapons
2. Force them to move

Remember once they cast this they are pretty much stuck. Moving in nearly any direction will force the spell against living creatures in most enviorments. So all you need to do is make where they are a bad place for them to stay. Also since the casting time is 1 round if you notice them casting this they are boned since you can get into melee range before it goes off. If they retreat they will force themselves against local plant and animal life (if outdoors) bringing down the spell.
The Simbul
05-22-05, 04:00 AM Use a Longspear.
beaver1024
05-22-05, 09:09 AM This seems broken to me.

Of course it's broken, it's a cleric spell.
Kyuketsukiouji
05-22-05, 11:19 AM Grass is not considered a creature of the plant subtype, but an object.

So, you can walk around with the sphere, somewhat.
Witchblade
05-22-05, 12:22 PM Use a Longspear.

10ft. radius can't be hit with a 10ft. reach weapon, can it?
Example:
0 = character
X = unoccupied square

01XX02

02 with the longspear would hit X, not 01.

But yes, it's a pretty good spell. But so are all L6 spells.
WindOwl
05-22-05, 06:03 PM By 'collapse' does it mean 'the bubble pushes inwards towards you thus not succesfully forcing the creature to move', or 'ends the spell'? Cause, why couldn't they just say 'ends the spell'?
kSquared
05-22-05, 10:15 PM By 'collapse' does it mean 'the bubble pushes inwards towards you thus not succesfully forcing the creature to move', or 'ends the spell'? Cause, why couldn't they just say 'ends the spell'?
Because they already did. See the SRD, Schools of Magic section:

If an abjuration creates a barrier that keeps certain types of creatures at bay, that barrier cannot be used to push away those creatures. If you force the barrier against such a creature, you feel a discernible pressure against the barrier. If you continue to apply pressure, you end the spell.
solbergb
05-23-05, 01:48 AM while 10' radius can't be beat with a 10' reach weapon, a potion of enlarge person can change that equation.

Got the first real good use of my man-catcher that I found a while back tonight...clamping down on a spellcaster I couldn't reach with my hands. I was just about to stop carrying that thing around too, as it never seemed like the right thing to have in my hands in prior adventures.
Bort333
05-23-05, 02:31 AM Hmm... I consider it one of the best protective spells for clerics. I mean just negating physical combat = awesome.
Artoran
05-23-05, 05:48 PM Add a protection from evil spell on yourself and you take care of outsiders too.
The only problem I can see is that friends likely cannot enter the area either. Bad if you should go down and need healing. Also creatures already inside arent affected from what I can tell ?
tiercel
05-23-05, 07:45 PM For comparison (SRD):Repulsion
Abjuration
Level: Clr 7, Protection 7, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Up to 10 ft./level
Area: Up to 10-ft.-radius/level emanation centered on you
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

An invisible, mobile field surrounds you and prevents creatures from approaching you. You decide how big the field is at the time of casting (to the limit your level allows). Any creature within or entering the field must attempt a save. If it fails, it becomes unable to move toward you for the duration of the spell. Repelled creatures’ actions are not otherwise restricted.

They can fight other creatures and can cast spells and attack you with ranged weapons. If you move closer to an affected creature, nothing happens. (The creature is not forced back.) The creature is free to make melee attacks against you if you come within reach. If a repelled creature moves away from you and then tries to turn back toward you, it cannot move any closer if it is still within the spell’s area.
Arcane Focus

A pair of small iron bars attached to two small canine statuettes, one black and one white, the whole array worth 50 gp. Sure, it can be a lot bigger (in fact, so big you generally won't use its full size), and it does take a standard action to cast instead of 1 round... but the latter is mitigated by the fact that antilife shell lasts 100 times as long, so you can preload it instead of having to cast it in combat.

It's true that repulsion can potentially hedge anything, but the key there is "potentially": replusion allows a Will save, antilife shell doesn't. In my game, antilife shell allows a Will save.

[Edited to add:] Note that protection from evil will hedge out summoned (non-good) creatures, not native outsiders, called outsiders, outsiders who wandered onto your plane through a planar gate, whatever.
Bort333
05-25-05, 03:02 AM But allowing a will save makes it essentially sanctuaruy but still able to blast at your foes at range.

I was thinking about just raising the level up to 8.
was_fired
05-25-05, 03:32 AM Grass is not considered a creature of the plant subtype, but an object.

So, you can walk around with the sphere, somewhat.

Your right, but flies, lice, and mites are considered creatures. I guess you could be safe by blasting infront of you before walking, but that would use a lot of spell slots.
Sproik
05-25-05, 04:02 AM Your right, but flies, lice, and mites are considered creatures. I guess you could be safe by blasting infront of you before walking, but that would use a lot of spell slots.

Hm. That's clearly not the intention though is it? Might as well simply rule that the barrier is immobile, rather than use that argument. You could argue that the bacteria floating in the air on dust particles are living creatures too, but I'd not have them collapse the shell.

Would you rule something like this for a sleep spell too? Say there was an ant's nest in the area of effect - they'd have the least hit dice, right? And if there were lots and lots of ants...
was_fired
05-25-05, 04:14 AM As their total HD (if we care to be smart and use fractions) would not exceed one it wouldn't cut into the effects. Come to think of it though a bunch of flies would be a nice way to mess with wail of the banshee though.
kSquared
05-25-05, 06:42 AM Hm. That's clearly not the intention though is it? Might as well simply rule that the barrier is immobile, rather than use that argument. You could argue that the bacteria floating in the air on dust particles are living creatures too, but I'd not have them collapse the shell.

Would you rule something like this for a sleep spell too? Say there was an ant's nest in the area of effect - they'd have the least hit dice, right? And if there were lots and lots of ants...
That's absurd. Clearly the intention of the spell is not to pin you in one place. Rule of thumb: if the "creature" has no challenge rating, then it's not affected by antilife shell. You don't get experience points for spraying Lysol on a treasure chest before you open it and killing the tetanus particles. =P
tarkin
05-25-05, 11:18 AM It would take a swarm of ants to have a hit dice.

This spell is GOOD, but not abusive.

The main things that make it not abusive are:

Reach weapons held by a large (tall) creature or bigger

Ranged attacks (arrows, daggers, etc.)

Spells - fireball is nasty.

Oh yeah, and my persona favorite: SUMMONED MONSTERS.
The spell does not block out Outsiders - which includes all those great Celestials you call up. Nor will it stop Elementals so a 16th level Druid can take elemental form and walk right through the shell.
DarkWarriorKarg
05-25-05, 11:32 AM Ummm... Dispel Magic? Just a thought, here... ;)

Seems like everyone forgets about this...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bort333 05-22-05, 02:05 AM	:confused: Wow... just wow... this spell seems wrong. "Antilife Shell Abjuration Level: Animal 6, Clr 6, Drd 6 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 round Range: 10 ft. Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You bring into being a mobile, hemispherical energy field that prevents the entrance of most types of living creatures. The effect hedges out animals, aberrations, dragons, fey, giants, humanoids, magical beasts, monstrous humanoids, oozes, plants, and vermin, but not constructs, elementals, outsiders, or undead. This spell may be used only defensively, not aggressively. Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier. " I'm just looking at a cleric/druid just saying... muahhaha nothing can hit me in meele combat... 10 min a level? Talk about being the Kings of the battle field. Am I reading this right? If your a human, with a meele weapon there is no way to get past this thing other then dispel magic? This seems broken to me.
was_fired 05-22-05, 02:14 AM	There are other ways to bypass it. 1. Ranged Weapons 2. Force them to move Remember once they cast this they are pretty much stuck. Moving in nearly any direction will force the spell against living creatures in most enviorments. So all you need to do is make where they are a bad place for them to stay. Also since the casting time is 1 round if you notice them casting this they are boned since you can get into melee range before it goes off. If they retreat they will force themselves against local plant and animal life (if outdoors) bringing down the spell.
The Simbul 05-22-05, 04:00 AM	Use a Longspear.
beaver1024 05-22-05, 09:09 AM	This seems broken to me. Of course it's broken, it's a cleric spell.
Kyuketsukiouji 05-22-05, 11:19 AM	Grass is not considered a creature of the plant subtype, but an object. So, you can walk around with the sphere, somewhat.
Witchblade 05-22-05, 12:22 PM	Use a Longspear. 10ft. radius can't be hit with a 10ft. reach weapon, can it? Example: 0 = character X = unoccupied square 01XX02 02 with the longspear would hit X, not 01. But yes, it's a pretty good spell. But so are all L6 spells.
WindOwl 05-22-05, 06:03 PM	By 'collapse' does it mean 'the bubble pushes inwards towards you thus not succesfully forcing the creature to move', or 'ends the spell'? Cause, why couldn't they just say 'ends the spell'?
kSquared 05-22-05, 10:15 PM	By 'collapse' does it mean 'the bubble pushes inwards towards you thus not succesfully forcing the creature to move', or 'ends the spell'? Cause, why couldn't they just say 'ends the spell'? Because they already did. See the SRD, Schools of Magic section: If an abjuration creates a barrier that keeps certain types of creatures at bay, that barrier cannot be used to push away those creatures. If you force the barrier against such a creature, you feel a discernible pressure against the barrier. If you continue to apply pressure, you end the spell.
solbergb 05-23-05, 01:48 AM	while 10' radius can't be beat with a 10' reach weapon, a potion of enlarge person can change that equation. Got the first real good use of my man-catcher that I found a while back tonight...clamping down on a spellcaster I couldn't reach with my hands. I was just about to stop carrying that thing around too, as it never seemed like the right thing to have in my hands in prior adventures.
Bort333 05-23-05, 02:31 AM	Hmm... I consider it one of the best protective spells for clerics. I mean just negating physical combat = awesome.
Artoran 05-23-05, 05:48 PM	Add a protection from evil spell on yourself and you take care of outsiders too. The only problem I can see is that friends likely cannot enter the area either. Bad if you should go down and need healing. Also creatures already inside arent affected from what I can tell ?
tiercel 05-23-05, 07:45 PM	For comparison (SRD):Repulsion Abjuration Level: Clr 7, Protection 7, Sor/Wiz 6 Components: V, S, F/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Up to 10 ft./level Area: Up to 10-ft.-radius/level emanation centered on you Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes An invisible, mobile field surrounds you and prevents creatures from approaching you. You decide how big the field is at the time of casting (to the limit your level allows). Any creature within or entering the field must attempt a save. If it fails, it becomes unable to move toward you for the duration of the spell. Repelled creatures’ actions are not otherwise restricted. They can fight other creatures and can cast spells and attack you with ranged weapons. If you move closer to an affected creature, nothing happens. (The creature is not forced back.) The creature is free to make melee attacks against you if you come within reach. If a repelled creature moves away from you and then tries to turn back toward you, it cannot move any closer if it is still within the spell’s area. Arcane Focus A pair of small iron bars attached to two small canine statuettes, one black and one white, the whole array worth 50 gp. Sure, it can be a lot bigger (in fact, so big you generally won't use its full size), and it does take a standard action to cast instead of 1 round... but the latter is mitigated by the fact that antilife shell lasts 100 times as long, so you can preload it instead of having to cast it in combat. It's true that repulsion can potentially hedge anything, but the key there is "potentially": replusion allows a Will save, antilife shell doesn't. In my game, antilife shell allows a Will save. [Edited to add:] Note that protection from evil will hedge out summoned (non-good) creatures, not native outsiders, called outsiders, outsiders who wandered onto your plane through a planar gate, whatever.
Bort333 05-25-05, 03:02 AM	But allowing a will save makes it essentially sanctuaruy but still able to blast at your foes at range. I was thinking about just raising the level up to 8.
was_fired 05-25-05, 03:32 AM	Grass is not considered a creature of the plant subtype, but an object. So, you can walk around with the sphere, somewhat. Your right, but flies, lice, and mites are considered creatures. I guess you could be safe by blasting infront of you before walking, but that would use a lot of spell slots.
Sproik 05-25-05, 04:02 AM	Your right, but flies, lice, and mites are considered creatures. I guess you could be safe by blasting infront of you before walking, but that would use a lot of spell slots. Hm. That's clearly not the intention though is it? Might as well simply rule that the barrier is immobile, rather than use that argument. You could argue that the bacteria floating in the air on dust particles are living creatures too, but I'd not have them collapse the shell. Would you rule something like this for a sleep spell too? Say there was an ant's nest in the area of effect - they'd have the least hit dice, right? And if there were lots and lots of ants...
was_fired 05-25-05, 04:14 AM	As their total HD (if we care to be smart and use fractions) would not exceed one it wouldn't cut into the effects. Come to think of it though a bunch of flies would be a nice way to mess with wail of the banshee though.
kSquared 05-25-05, 06:42 AM	Hm. That's clearly not the intention though is it? Might as well simply rule that the barrier is immobile, rather than use that argument. You could argue that the bacteria floating in the air on dust particles are living creatures too, but I'd not have them collapse the shell. Would you rule something like this for a sleep spell too? Say there was an ant's nest in the area of effect - they'd have the least hit dice, right? And if there were lots and lots of ants... That's absurd. Clearly the intention of the spell is not to pin you in one place. Rule of thumb: if the "creature" has no challenge rating, then it's not affected by antilife shell. You don't get experience points for spraying Lysol on a treasure chest before you open it and killing the tetanus particles. =P
tarkin 05-25-05, 11:18 AM	It would take a swarm of ants to have a hit dice. This spell is GOOD, but not abusive. The main things that make it not abusive are: Reach weapons held by a large (tall) creature or bigger Ranged attacks (arrows, daggers, etc.) Spells - fireball is nasty. Oh yeah, and my persona favorite: SUMMONED MONSTERS. The spell does not block out Outsiders - which includes all those great Celestials you call up. Nor will it stop Elementals so a 16th level Druid can take elemental form and walk right through the shell.
DarkWarriorKarg 05-25-05, 11:32 AM	Ummm... Dispel Magic? Just a thought, here... ;) Seems like everyone forgets about this...