Antimagic Field and incorporeal undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Antimagic Field and incorporeal undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Watchdog_of_Hades
05-08-07, 08:55 PM So, according to the PHB:... and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away.What if, say, a ghost wizard casts Antimagic Field? He vanishes. But what happens to the antimagic field? Does it stay in the same place, or vanish with him? If it goes away as well, then the ghost will reappear. Does the AM come back as well? If so, does the vanished time count against the duration?
ArcTan
05-08-07, 10:27 PM I would say the AMF stays there and remains in the same place until it ends and the Ghost returns.
CantripN
05-09-07, 04:45 AM I can't say I understand why it works like it does, though...

The AMF cancels the ghost's ability to manifest, pushing it out of the Material plane, so it now only exists on the Ethereal.

That would make sense, but in that case, why can't it move on the Ethereal plane and must "reappear in the same spot once the field goes away."?

the AMF is an Abjuration, so it exists on the Ethereal as well, but why can't the Ghost move naturally on the Ethereal plane. It's not magical movement, is it?

If it is, that would make sense, since there is no gravity on the Ethereal, and without being able to move, they would indeed get stuck in place.

Thoughts?
WinDReiN
05-09-07, 06:13 AM It seems like a hole in the system.
Housrule.
If a ghost wizard casts Antimagic Field on himself, it would go with him on the etheral plane and would not effect the Material Plane any more, but just Etheral plane. There he can move in any direction at half speed.
Zaistars69
05-09-07, 11:29 AM It seems like a hole in the system.
Housrule.
If a ghost wizard casts Antimagic Field on himself, it would go with him on the etheral plane and would not effect the Material Plane any more, but just Etheral plane. There he can move in any direction at half speed.

It isn't a house rule. when you cast a spell on yourself (like antimagic field) and then move your spells go with you. just like if a human wizard cast antimagic field and then a diety transported him to the ethereal, or any other, plane. The effect would go with him.
tarkin
05-09-07, 02:14 PM I agree for a ghost, when he casts anti-magic, he stops manifesting.

Also note, the Ghost (and the anti-magic field) was ALWAYS on the ethereal plane. He was manifesting onto the Material plane, but his self was always on the ethereal plane.

Which means the Anti-magic field never affected the material plane at all, not even for a second.

------

A more interesting question is what happens when a Shadow, Wraith, etc. casts Anti-Magic Field.

Let's use Wraith, because we avoid discussion of a Shadow 'really' being on the Plane of Shadow, just manifesting like the ghost does.

I would say the Anti-Magic Field, goes away when the Shadow mage goes away.
Zaistars69
05-09-07, 04:19 PM I agree for a ghost, when he casts anti-magic, he stops manifesting.

Also note, the Ghost (and the anti-magic field) was ALWAYS on the ethereal plane. He was manifesting onto the Material plane, but his self was always on the ethereal plane.

Which means the Anti-magic field never affected the material plane at all, not even for a second.
.

Not quite, the ghost entry says his spells work fine on the material plane when he is manifesting unless they require touch. So really will the anti-magic field work on the material plane, no but it has nothing to do with his "Self" being on the eitherial plane. Any other spell he casts (not touch) works fine on the material plane.
tarkin
05-09-07, 04:25 PM I will agree that if he was somehow manifesting in a way that would let him continue to manifest in an anti-magic zone, then the Anti-Magic would occure on the material plane.

But I would say that the anti-magic takes out the ghosts's own Manifesting ability before the manifesting ability passes on the Anti-Magic to the material plane.

So the anti-magic should never get to the material plane, because the only way it could get there is itself instantly surpressed before it has a chance to work.
Muktar
05-09-07, 04:29 PM For only a brief moment a ghost's anti-magic field works in the prime material. It does work because of the latest definition of the incorporeal subtype(ToM pg 164-165). Now when the ghost is then shunted back into the ethereal plane, so does his anti-magic field. Since, he is in the ethereal plane, the anti-magic field does not work against those in the prime material. Just like spells don't affect those in adjacent planes (unless otherwise indicated).
Zaistars69
05-09-07, 04:42 PM ------

A more interesting question is what happens when a Shadow, Wraith, etc. casts Anti-Magic Field.

Let's use Wraith, because we avoid discussion of a Shadow 'really' being on the Plane of Shadow, just manifesting like the ghost does.

I would say the Anti-Magic Field, goes away when the Shadow mage goes away.

According to the MM a shadows home plane is the material plane, they are just incorporeal. So nothing happens when they cast antimagic field. Same with the wraith.
ArcTan
05-09-07, 08:03 PM You're missing the part where AMF makes a special provision that says all Incorporeal Undead wink out in an AMF, regardless of what plane they're on or if they're using a (Su) ability. Ghost, Wraith, Shadow or whatever, whatever plane he's on, the Wizard winks out when he casts AMF, because AMF makes Incorporeal Undead wink out.
Muktar
05-09-07, 08:09 PM I think the better question that would solve all of this is, what is winking out? Do they not exist at all while in a anti-magic field or if they do where do they go? Are they just invisible (in the case of wights and such) or are they put into the ethereal plane?
ArcTan
05-09-07, 10:08 PM I think the better question that would solve all of this is, what is winking out? Do they not exist at all while in a anti-magic field or if they do where do they go? Are they just invisible (in the case of wights and such) or are they put into the ethereal plane?

I would call the "wink-out" still being there, but being unable to have a visible form or take actions because the magic that powers you is being suppressed. You're an invisible little locus of existence that loses its form until the AMF expires. This is why winked-out summoned creatures still have their wink-out time count against their summoning duration.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Watchdog_of_Hades 05-08-07, 08:55 PM	So, according to the PHB:... and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away.What if, say, a ghost wizard casts Antimagic Field? He vanishes. But what happens to the antimagic field? Does it stay in the same place, or vanish with him? If it goes away as well, then the ghost will reappear. Does the AM come back as well? If so, does the vanished time count against the duration?
ArcTan 05-08-07, 10:27 PM	I would say the AMF stays there and remains in the same place until it ends and the Ghost returns.
CantripN 05-09-07, 04:45 AM	I can't say I understand why it works like it does, though... The AMF cancels the ghost's ability to manifest, pushing it out of the Material plane, so it now only exists on the Ethereal. That would make sense, but in that case, why can't it move on the Ethereal plane and must "reappear in the same spot once the field goes away."? the AMF is an Abjuration, so it exists on the Ethereal as well, but why can't the Ghost move naturally on the Ethereal plane. It's not magical movement, is it? If it is, that would make sense, since there is no gravity on the Ethereal, and without being able to move, they would indeed get stuck in place. Thoughts?
WinDReiN 05-09-07, 06:13 AM	It seems like a hole in the system. Housrule. If a ghost wizard casts Antimagic Field on himself, it would go with him on the etheral plane and would not effect the Material Plane any more, but just Etheral plane. There he can move in any direction at half speed.
Zaistars69 05-09-07, 11:29 AM	It seems like a hole in the system. Housrule. If a ghost wizard casts Antimagic Field on himself, it would go with him on the etheral plane and would not effect the Material Plane any more, but just Etheral plane. There he can move in any direction at half speed. It isn't a house rule. when you cast a spell on yourself (like antimagic field) and then move your spells go with you. just like if a human wizard cast antimagic field and then a diety transported him to the ethereal, or any other, plane. The effect would go with him.
tarkin 05-09-07, 02:14 PM	I agree for a ghost, when he casts anti-magic, he stops manifesting. Also note, the Ghost (and the anti-magic field) was ALWAYS on the ethereal plane. He was manifesting onto the Material plane, but his self was always on the ethereal plane. Which means the Anti-magic field never affected the material plane at all, not even for a second. ------ A more interesting question is what happens when a Shadow, Wraith, etc. casts Anti-Magic Field. Let's use Wraith, because we avoid discussion of a Shadow 'really' being on the Plane of Shadow, just manifesting like the ghost does. I would say the Anti-Magic Field, goes away when the Shadow mage goes away.
Zaistars69 05-09-07, 04:19 PM	I agree for a ghost, when he casts anti-magic, he stops manifesting. Also note, the Ghost (and the anti-magic field) was ALWAYS on the ethereal plane. He was manifesting onto the Material plane, but his self was always on the ethereal plane. Which means the Anti-magic field never affected the material plane at all, not even for a second. . Not quite, the ghost entry says his spells work fine on the material plane when he is manifesting unless they require touch. So really will the anti-magic field work on the material plane, no but it has nothing to do with his "Self" being on the eitherial plane. Any other spell he casts (not touch) works fine on the material plane.
tarkin 05-09-07, 04:25 PM	I will agree that if he was somehow manifesting in a way that would let him continue to manifest in an anti-magic zone, then the Anti-Magic would occure on the material plane. But I would say that the anti-magic takes out the ghosts's own Manifesting ability before the manifesting ability passes on the Anti-Magic to the material plane. So the anti-magic should never get to the material plane, because the only way it could get there is itself instantly surpressed before it has a chance to work.
Muktar 05-09-07, 04:29 PM	For only a brief moment a ghost's anti-magic field works in the prime material. It does work because of the latest definition of the incorporeal subtype(ToM pg 164-165). Now when the ghost is then shunted back into the ethereal plane, so does his anti-magic field. Since, he is in the ethereal plane, the anti-magic field does not work against those in the prime material. Just like spells don't affect those in adjacent planes (unless otherwise indicated).
Zaistars69 05-09-07, 04:42 PM	------ A more interesting question is what happens when a Shadow, Wraith, etc. casts Anti-Magic Field. Let's use Wraith, because we avoid discussion of a Shadow 'really' being on the Plane of Shadow, just manifesting like the ghost does. I would say the Anti-Magic Field, goes away when the Shadow mage goes away. According to the MM a shadows home plane is the material plane, they are just incorporeal. So nothing happens when they cast antimagic field. Same with the wraith.
ArcTan 05-09-07, 08:03 PM	You're missing the part where AMF makes a special provision that says all Incorporeal Undead wink out in an AMF, regardless of what plane they're on or if they're using a (Su) ability. Ghost, Wraith, Shadow or whatever, whatever plane he's on, the Wizard winks out when he casts AMF, because AMF makes Incorporeal Undead wink out.
Muktar 05-09-07, 08:09 PM	I think the better question that would solve all of this is, what is winking out? Do they not exist at all while in a anti-magic field or if they do where do they go? Are they just invisible (in the case of wights and such) or are they put into the ethereal plane?
ArcTan 05-09-07, 10:08 PM	I think the better question that would solve all of this is, what is winking out? Do they not exist at all while in a anti-magic field or if they do where do they go? Are they just invisible (in the case of wights and such) or are they put into the ethereal plane? I would call the "wink-out" still being there, but being unable to have a visible form or take actions because the magic that powers you is being suppressed. You're an invisible little locus of existence that loses its form until the AMF expires. This is why winked-out summoned creatures still have their wink-out time count against their summoning duration.