Antimagic Field interacting with Extraordinary Spell Aim [Archive] - Wizards Community

Antimagic Field interacting with Extraordinary Spell Aim [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sithobi1
10-25-05, 09:30 PM I understand it turns off all magic in the radius, while allowing you to cast spells out of it. However, if someone lobs a fireball at you, will the AMF negate it? What about your magical items? Will they work? Please give answers based in RAW, not opinions. Thanks.
Feroz
10-25-05, 09:37 PM When did you become able to cast out of an antimagic field?

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.

1) Magic items and spells do not function within its confines: Any magic items which are in the field don't work, as do parts of spells that extend into the area. A fireball that landed half-on an AMF would look like it had a dome-shaped area carved out of its side.

2) Any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area. Any spell you cast is used within it, so is supressed, anything like a charm spell victim whose brought into the area has the charm effect repressed until the AMF expires or they leave the field, spells cast into the area don't work until the field fades or leaves the area, and if they're instantaneous duration, their duration is expired already, so they have no effect.
Sithobi1
10-25-05, 10:28 PM Extraordinary Spell Aim, from CV. You make a spellcraft check, and you(or is it any one person?) become immune to the effects of the spell.
Sithobi1
10-26-05, 02:14 PM Well, I'll just put my opinion. No, this is not a :bump:.
1. AMF and XSA together allow you and all of your items to function while in the field.
2. Your spells will take effect inside the field, but nobody else's will.
3. You are immune to other people's spells.
tarkin
10-26-05, 02:30 PM The actual rules are supposed to be:

1) AMF and XSA work.

2) XSA is supposed to provide a 5ft square unaffected by the area, not an envelope just affecting the caster, and it also does not folow your spells out of that 5ft area.

3) Your spells do not ignore the AMF, only spells you cast that apply within the 5ft safe hole that XSA created work. You can not cast a fireball and have it blast someone in your AMF, as it leaves the XSF area and does not work in the AMF.

4) AMF blocks Line of Effect (LOE) so people can't use most magic on you when you are surrounded by the AMF, even if you are in XSF hole.

5) Ranged magic items and things that ignore LOE (teleportation effects) work as normal cause they leave the AMF before they affect you. I.E. If someone attempts to cast the spell that uses teleport to switches places with you, it works. If someone shoots you with a flaming arrow, the arrow starts flaming before it hits your body, so you take full damage.
Sithobi1
10-26-05, 08:14 PM XSA does not make an empty 5ft square; that's what Archmage's Mastery of Shaping does. Instead, it makes a creature immune.
Jaid
10-26-05, 09:53 PM also, i have not been able to find where AMF blocks LOE. i remember seeing it in 3.0, but i haven't for the life of me been able to find it in 3.5

i fully agree that it should block LOE (at least, for those spells that don't ignore AMF, that is, notwithstanding those spells sometimes don't make any sense in the first place as written).
tarkin
10-27-05, 11:35 AM I may have confused XSF with Mastery of Shaping. Sorry.

I will leave that first answer up.

Here is how it works if it just makes you yourself immune to the AMF:

1) AMF and XSA work.

2) XSA only makes you immune, not your spells. So you can cast, but only on yourslef, nothing magical can extend past your skin. You can not cast a fireball and have it blast someone in your AMF

3) AMF blocks Line of Effect (LOE) so people can't use most magic on you when you are surrounded by the AMF

4) Ranged magic items that hit you for do damage and things that ignore LOE (teleportation effects) work as normal cause they have their magical effect after entering your body leave the AMF before they affect you. I.E. If someone attempts to cast the spell that uses teleport to switches places with you, it works. If someone shoots you with a flaming arrow, the arrow starts flaming just after it hits you, so you take full damage.
Domar
10-27-05, 08:04 PM This will work great with the orb spells from Complete Arcane.
Bopple
10-28-05, 09:04 AM It does not make one immune to spells.
Reread the description. It says it lets you SHAPE the area of effect to unaffect one person.
jarrod_j
11-02-05, 06:08 PM This will work great with the orb spells from Complete Arcane.

How does the orbs line spell reach you through the AMF? Isn't the propulsion aspect of the spell (orb of force/ acid, etc) require magic to function?
Esponer
11-02-05, 08:28 PM XSA does not make an empty 5ft square; that's what Archmage's Mastery of Shaping does. Instead, it makes a creature immune.

You're wrong about that.

"You can shape a spell's area to exclude one creature from its effects."

The feat allows you to shape the area of a spell, leaving a hole of one square. The feat is described as using this to exclude one creature from its effects. Nowhere in the description of the feat does it say anything about immunities.

Therefore, using Extraordinary Spell Aim with Antimagic Field allows you to create a pocket without the dead magic zone in which magic still functions. This pocket doesn't have to be centred on you, although you'd probably want that.

Incidentally, if someone strikes you with a melee weapon, or throws/shoots something at you, it regains its enhancement at it contacts you, although they don't gain any other magical effects they might otherwise have by merit of attacking you - it's simply that to attack you, their weapon must enter into the live magic pocket.
Merestil Haye
11-02-05, 09:11 PM You're wrong about that.

"You can shape a spell's area to exclude one creature from its effects."

The feat allows you to shape the area of a spell, leaving a hole of one square. The feat is described as using this to exclude one creature from its effects. Nowhere in the description of the feat does it say anything about immunities.No, it does not in any way leave a hole of one square.

It allows you to exclude one creature from the effects of an area spell. It says absolutely nothing about the size of the creature so excluded. If you choose a Huge creature, who takes up a 15' * 15' area, that creature is excluded. If you exclude a Fine creature, that creatue takes up a tiny amount of a square - but the square itself is not excluded from the AMF.

This feat / spell combo caused me to houserule the feat. In my games, a character may not use this feat to exclude himself from the effects of a spell affecting a burst, emanation or spread area centred on the caster.
Goreg Skullcrusher
11-02-05, 09:36 PM It does not make one immune to spells.
Reread the description. It says it lets you SHAPE the area of effect to unaffect one person.

Repeated for emphasis. Tarkin had it right the first time, it works functionally identical to Mastery of Shaping.

No, it does not in any way leave a hole of one square.

It not only says you shape the area of the spell in the flavour description, but within the benefit section as well. One would have to extrapolate that larger creatures have larger sections of area removed. (Keep in mind this feat was likely designed for instantaneous spells like Fireball)
kten
11-02-05, 09:47 PM The way i look at it, it allows you to exclude someone from the effect of the spell, but someone wouldn't be able to cast spells out, because the spells arn't excluded, only the person is, not anything they produce. Hope that makes sense.
scout989
11-02-05, 09:47 PM Repeated for emphasis. Tarkin had it right the first time, it works functionally identical to Mastery of Shaping.

It not only says you shape the area of the spell in the flavour description, but within the benefit section as well. One would have to extrapolate that larger creatures have larger sections of area removed. (Keep in mind this feat was likely designed for instantaneous spells like Fireball)
The point is that it does not leave a hole x number of squares by x number of squares. It alters the area so that one creature is unaffected. This is indeed almost functionally equivalent to the Mastery of Shaping abilities, but there is one area where this is not true. Can anyone guess what it is?
Goreg Skullcrusher
11-02-05, 09:59 PM The point is that it does not leave a hole x number of squares by x number of squares. It alters the area so that one creature is unaffected. This is indeed almost functionally equivalent to the Mastery of Shaping abilities, but there is one area where this is not true. Can anyone guess what it is?

I think I see your point now, though I still contend that either scenario is feasible. Unlike MoS it doesn't specify directly that empty 5 ft squares are created, but that may have simply been an oversight.

Granted, I'm more inclined to go with your explanation now that I read it over a few times.
scout989
11-02-05, 10:21 PM The difference between these two scenarios is that of what happens when two creatures are sharing the same space. Say, for some reason, a giant and a halfling are sharing a space. A spellcaster wants to use MoS to hit the halfling but not the giant. Well, too bad- those squares have to be excluded from the AoE to not hit the giant. However, with XSA, the mage just chooses to shape the spell to exclude the giant. Now, even though it is mere feet away from the giant, by the RAW that halfling is fair game.

I agree, it's not a huge difference (except, of course, for the halfling). I just wanted to point that out- probably, somewhere out there, someone will see this and find a horribly abusive way to use it to their advantage. Then I can say "Hah, I knew all about that!" (Actually, I'm just being pedantic- don't mind me)
Bopple
11-02-05, 10:22 PM Since it doesn't specify, it shapes the area to exactly exclude one creature, instead of excluding the whole square, at the moment of casting.

Edit) Eh, scout889 already posted. :(
Nightspirit
11-03-05, 02:52 AM How does the orbs line spell reach you through the AMF? Isn't the propulsion aspect of the spell (orb of force/ acid, etc) require magic to function?

. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

the orbs are instantaneous conjurations, so they're not affected by an AMF
scout989
11-03-05, 04:00 AM Since it doesn't specify, it shapes the area to exactly exclude one creature, instead of excluding the whole square, at the moment of casting.

Edit) Eh, scout889 already posted. :(
Yeah, I'm an impatient ******* but you get a :cookie: because your post was up at the same time as mine.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sithobi1 10-25-05, 09:30 PM	I understand it turns off all magic in the radius, while allowing you to cast spells out of it. However, if someone lobs a fireball at you, will the AMF negate it? What about your magical items? Will they work? Please give answers based in RAW, not opinions. Thanks.
Feroz 10-25-05, 09:37 PM	When did you become able to cast out of an antimagic field? An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines. An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration. 1) Magic items and spells do not function within its confines: Any magic items which are in the field don't work, as do parts of spells that extend into the area. A fireball that landed half-on an AMF would look like it had a dome-shaped area carved out of its side. 2) Any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area. Any spell you cast is used within it, so is supressed, anything like a charm spell victim whose brought into the area has the charm effect repressed until the AMF expires or they leave the field, spells cast into the area don't work until the field fades or leaves the area, and if they're instantaneous duration, their duration is expired already, so they have no effect.
Sithobi1 10-25-05, 10:28 PM	Extraordinary Spell Aim, from CV. You make a spellcraft check, and you(or is it any one person?) become immune to the effects of the spell.
Sithobi1 10-26-05, 02:14 PM	Well, I'll just put my opinion. No, this is not a :bump:. 1. AMF and XSA together allow you and all of your items to function while in the field. 2. Your spells will take effect inside the field, but nobody else's will. 3. You are immune to other people's spells.
tarkin 10-26-05, 02:30 PM	The actual rules are supposed to be: 1) AMF and XSA work. 2) XSA is supposed to provide a 5ft square unaffected by the area, not an envelope just affecting the caster, and it also does not folow your spells out of that 5ft area. 3) Your spells do not ignore the AMF, only spells you cast that apply within the 5ft safe hole that XSA created work. You can not cast a fireball and have it blast someone in your AMF, as it leaves the XSF area and does not work in the AMF. 4) AMF blocks Line of Effect (LOE) so people can't use most magic on you when you are surrounded by the AMF, even if you are in XSF hole. 5) Ranged magic items and things that ignore LOE (teleportation effects) work as normal cause they leave the AMF before they affect you. I.E. If someone attempts to cast the spell that uses teleport to switches places with you, it works. If someone shoots you with a flaming arrow, the arrow starts flaming before it hits your body, so you take full damage.
Sithobi1 10-26-05, 08:14 PM	XSA does not make an empty 5ft square; that's what Archmage's Mastery of Shaping does. Instead, it makes a creature immune.
Jaid 10-26-05, 09:53 PM	also, i have not been able to find where AMF blocks LOE. i remember seeing it in 3.0, but i haven't for the life of me been able to find it in 3.5 i fully agree that it should block LOE (at least, for those spells that don't ignore AMF, that is, notwithstanding those spells sometimes don't make any sense in the first place as written).
tarkin 10-27-05, 11:35 AM	I may have confused XSF with Mastery of Shaping. Sorry. I will leave that first answer up. Here is how it works if it just makes you yourself immune to the AMF: 1) AMF and XSA work. 2) XSA only makes you immune, not your spells. So you can cast, but only on yourslef, nothing magical can extend past your skin. You can not cast a fireball and have it blast someone in your AMF 3) AMF blocks Line of Effect (LOE) so people can't use most magic on you when you are surrounded by the AMF 4) Ranged magic items that hit you for do damage and things that ignore LOE (teleportation effects) work as normal cause they have their magical effect after entering your body leave the AMF before they affect you. I.E. If someone attempts to cast the spell that uses teleport to switches places with you, it works. If someone shoots you with a flaming arrow, the arrow starts flaming just after it hits you, so you take full damage.
Domar 10-27-05, 08:04 PM	This will work great with the orb spells from Complete Arcane.
Bopple 10-28-05, 09:04 AM	It does not make one immune to spells. Reread the description. It says it lets you SHAPE the area of effect to unaffect one person.
jarrod_j 11-02-05, 06:08 PM	This will work great with the orb spells from Complete Arcane. How does the orbs line spell reach you through the AMF? Isn't the propulsion aspect of the spell (orb of force/ acid, etc) require magic to function?
Esponer 11-02-05, 08:28 PM	XSA does not make an empty 5ft square; that's what Archmage's Mastery of Shaping does. Instead, it makes a creature immune. You're wrong about that. "You can shape a spell's area to exclude one creature from its effects." The feat allows you to shape the area of a spell, leaving a hole of one square. The feat is described as using this to exclude one creature from its effects. Nowhere in the description of the feat does it say anything about immunities. Therefore, using Extraordinary Spell Aim with Antimagic Field allows you to create a pocket without the dead magic zone in which magic still functions. This pocket doesn't have to be centred on you, although you'd probably want that. Incidentally, if someone strikes you with a melee weapon, or throws/shoots something at you, it regains its enhancement at it contacts you, although they don't gain any other magical effects they might otherwise have by merit of attacking you - it's simply that to attack you, their weapon must enter into the live magic pocket.
Merestil Haye 11-02-05, 09:11 PM	You're wrong about that. "You can shape a spell's area to exclude one creature from its effects." The feat allows you to shape the area of a spell, leaving a hole of one square. The feat is described as using this to exclude one creature from its effects. Nowhere in the description of the feat does it say anything about immunities.No, it does not in any way leave a hole of one square. It allows you to exclude one creature from the effects of an area spell. It says absolutely nothing about the size of the creature so excluded. If you choose a Huge creature, who takes up a 15' * 15' area, that creature is excluded. If you exclude a Fine creature, that creatue takes up a tiny amount of a square - but the square itself is not excluded from the AMF. This feat / spell combo caused me to houserule the feat. In my games, a character may not use this feat to exclude himself from the effects of a spell affecting a burst, emanation or spread area centred on the caster.
Goreg Skullcrusher 11-02-05, 09:36 PM	It does not make one immune to spells. Reread the description. It says it lets you SHAPE the area of effect to unaffect one person. Repeated for emphasis. Tarkin had it right the first time, it works functionally identical to Mastery of Shaping. No, it does not in any way leave a hole of one square. It not only says you shape the area of the spell in the flavour description, but within the benefit section as well. One would have to extrapolate that larger creatures have larger sections of area removed. (Keep in mind this feat was likely designed for instantaneous spells like Fireball)
kten 11-02-05, 09:47 PM	The way i look at it, it allows you to exclude someone from the effect of the spell, but someone wouldn't be able to cast spells out, because the spells arn't excluded, only the person is, not anything they produce. Hope that makes sense.
scout989 11-02-05, 09:47 PM	Repeated for emphasis. Tarkin had it right the first time, it works functionally identical to Mastery of Shaping. It not only says you shape the area of the spell in the flavour description, but within the benefit section as well. One would have to extrapolate that larger creatures have larger sections of area removed. (Keep in mind this feat was likely designed for instantaneous spells like Fireball) The point is that it does not leave a hole x number of squares by x number of squares. It alters the area so that one creature is unaffected. This is indeed almost functionally equivalent to the Mastery of Shaping abilities, but there is one area where this is not true. Can anyone guess what it is?
Goreg Skullcrusher 11-02-05, 09:59 PM	The point is that it does not leave a hole x number of squares by x number of squares. It alters the area so that one creature is unaffected. This is indeed almost functionally equivalent to the Mastery of Shaping abilities, but there is one area where this is not true. Can anyone guess what it is? I think I see your point now, though I still contend that either scenario is feasible. Unlike MoS it doesn't specify directly that empty 5 ft squares are created, but that may have simply been an oversight. Granted, I'm more inclined to go with your explanation now that I read it over a few times.
scout989 11-02-05, 10:21 PM	The difference between these two scenarios is that of what happens when two creatures are sharing the same space. Say, for some reason, a giant and a halfling are sharing a space. A spellcaster wants to use MoS to hit the halfling but not the giant. Well, too bad- those squares have to be excluded from the AoE to not hit the giant. However, with XSA, the mage just chooses to shape the spell to exclude the giant. Now, even though it is mere feet away from the giant, by the RAW that halfling is fair game. I agree, it's not a huge difference (except, of course, for the halfling). I just wanted to point that out- probably, somewhere out there, someone will see this and find a horribly abusive way to use it to their advantage. Then I can say "Hah, I knew all about that!" (Actually, I'm just being pedantic- don't mind me)
Bopple 11-02-05, 10:22 PM	Since it doesn't specify, it shapes the area to exactly exclude one creature, instead of excluding the whole square, at the moment of casting. Edit) Eh, scout889 already posted. :(
Nightspirit 11-03-05, 02:52 AM	How does the orbs line spell reach you through the AMF? Isn't the propulsion aspect of the spell (orb of force/ acid, etc) require magic to function? . (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.) the orbs are instantaneous conjurations, so they're not affected by an AMF
scout989 11-03-05, 04:00 AM	Since it doesn't specify, it shapes the area to exactly exclude one creature, instead of excluding the whole square, at the moment of casting. Edit) Eh, scout889 already posted. :( Yeah, I'm an impatient ******* but you get a :cookie: because your post was up at the same time as mine.