Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malum 08-03-05, 03:05 PM	Greetings! I have the fortunate time to be playing in a decently high level group ( 18-21 level). Lots of experience at the table but tis our first time getting this high level. Our Dm does a great job and has kept things interesting until now. For the last couple weeks we keep running into creatures with antimagic field capabilities. Last eve was the straw that broke us or at least me. We are currently in battle with a creature who is not undead but incorporeal with an antimagic field. For those in the know that means it does not wink out and all magic weapons become mundane and it is now immune to ALL weapons. Well so you say? Who cares? Well I kind of do and would like to open a discussion on how wizards/clerics/psions can deal with this. Granted I understand a fighter can normally just go in and crush but not in this scenerio because of the "cute" combo the DM has going on ( incorporeal + antimagic.) So basically I am looking for ways to deal with Antimagic field overall using ONLY Hasbro products 3.5. We know of the following ways to kind of deal with antimagic fields but need more: 1. Intiate of Mystra feat 2. Prismatic Wall 3. Prismatic Sphere 4. Wall of Force 5. Mordikain's Disjunction (sp?) 6. Polymorph/Shapechange outside and throw things 7. Wish 8. Miracle Please post you HAsbro only 3.5 suggestions here. Thanks a bunch guys and girls What other ways can a spell user doing anything in an antimagic area?
Malibu Trojan 08-03-05, 03:17 PM	Holy water! Lots and lots of holy water! (That's all I've come up with so far...) Maybe your DM shouldn't be using such a broken creature? What kind of monster is it anyway? Maybe that will give us some more clues. You might also ask your DM if you can make a Knowledge check to try to figure out any weaknesses it has.
TheMagister 08-03-05, 03:17 PM	Orb spells (Complete Arcane) esp. Orb of Force (no miss chance). Conjuration (calling) spells. Forcecage the S.O.B. and leave him there. (A tactical retreat or "Advancing to the rear.") Use any artifact. They are unaffected by mortal magic such as this. =)
Malibu Trojan 08-03-05, 03:19 PM	Conjuration (calling) spells. Aren't conjured creatures winked out when they enter an antimagic field?
TheMagister 08-03-05, 03:20 PM	Only Conjuration (summoning) creatures. (Called) creatures are really there, in the flesh, and really die if they are reduced to -10 HP. You usually have to barter with them to gain their services, and it ain't cheap. TM EDIT and P.S. - Check out the Planar Ally spells, and read the definition of Conjuration (Calling) in the Magic section of the PHB. Also, you'd have to call something that could deal with incorporeality on its own...the called creature's spells would have no more effect than yours would. It would take careful consideration. tm
Malum 08-03-05, 03:31 PM	Sir: Would not the orbs shut down when they hit the field?
ReadError 08-03-05, 03:38 PM	Sir: Would not the orbs shut down when they hit the field? I don't think so, because they are Conjuration [Creation]. When the orb appears, it's no longer a magical effect. It's just there.
mbfu3k 08-03-05, 03:54 PM	We are currently in battle with a creature who is not undead but incorporeal with an antimagic field. For those in the know that means it does not wink out Your DM is incorrect. Re-read the Antimagic Field spell description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm), specifically the part that says: Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal creatures wink out if they enter an antimagic field. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it, and being undead or not has no bearing on whether they wink out. The monster your DM is using cannot exist, per the RAW. I don't think so, because they are Conjuration [Creation]. When the orb appears, it's no longer a magical effect. It's just there. Which also means that it would not affect the incorporeal creature (except the Force Orb) since it is non-magical energy damage. You can't have it both ways. :)
Griff_Goodbeard 08-03-05, 04:01 PM	I don't think so, because they are Conjuration [Creation]. When the orb appears, it's no longer a magical effect. It's just there. I'm not sure how accurate this is by RAW but I would have to rule that the orb spell wouldn't affect an incorporeal creature ('cept maybe force) because they are creation spells. They create a non- magical element in your hand that you magically are able to throw. It would be like thrown a lit torch at it. Of course IMC the orb spells are evocation and do allowed spell resistance so they wouldn't work in the AMF. edit- darn, mbfu3k you were quicker on the draw than me. :P
Malum 08-03-05, 04:03 PM	Mbfu3k: Hmmn see the book says incorp. undead wink out. Neat I will have to check that out.
mbfu3k 08-03-05, 04:47 PM	Mbfu3k: Hmmn see the book says incorp. undead wink out. Neat I will have to check that out. How odd. You're correct that the PHB actually says "incorporeal undead" instead of "incorporeal creatures" as the SRD does. I wonder if there is errata concerning this. Regardless, considering that corporeal undead are unaffected by an antimagic field (or, rather, no more affected than any other creature), I think the winking out part is related to the incorporealness, and not the undeadness. I imagine the undead-specific wording is because there are no non-undead incorporeal creatures in the (first) MM. But, if your DM is going by the PHB and there is no errata or FAQ concerning this, then I guess you're out of luck.
Malibu Trojan 08-03-05, 07:09 PM	Antimagic (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_antimagic&alpha=) as defined by the WotC glossary. According to this, "summoned or conjured creatures of any kind, as well as incorporeal undead, wink out if they enter the area of an antimagic effect." It doesn't help with the incorporeality question, but it does sound like even conjured [called] creatures cannot enter it. According to the PHB (page 172), a "called creature can't be dispelled," but, according to the glossary, "antimagic does not dispel magic; it suppresses it." I checked the errata on the PHB, and found nothing on Antimagic Field. The Wizards SRD also says "incorporeal undead." If indeed antimagic does not wink out all incorporeal creatures under Wizards' rules, then having an incorporeal creature with antimagic seems severely broken to me.
tiercel 08-03-05, 07:12 PM	My other question would be... what is it doing to you? What can it do? It's incorporeal, does it have some kind of weird non-undead-non-magical attack form? Or is it just following you around annoying you by turning your magic off all the time? I think the SRD listing makes more sense -- how can something be nonmagically incorporeal and alive? Still, if the PHB is different and that's what the DM is sticking by.... Presumably your characters should entitled to some kind of a Knowledge check to know something about this homebrew monster, depending on its type. Personally, I'd say teleport somewhere else before you see it again (if the thing is constantly surrounded by antimagic, it shouldn't even be able to locate you, much less follow at anything like enough speed) and go hunting for an artifact-weapon. Once you get your hands on the Mace of St Cuthbert or Blackrazor or something, see if it bothers showing up again ;) As a DM who's been using some antimagic in a high-level campaign of my own, I can sympathize with his urge to "tone things down" in one of the few ways left to him, but, ouch man. At least my implementations were defeatable (an antimagic-emitting artifact that was movable, if not easily, and beholders... which at least have directional antimagic).
Chade Fallstar 08-03-05, 07:43 PM	We are currently in battle with a creature who is not undead but incorporeal with an antimagic field. I ask, is this description the exact words of the DM? Or is it based on your character's observations? The reason I ask is that you may be misinterpreting the stimuli which led you to conclude the above 'facts'. A mist-like creature emitting an anti-magic field could be blown away by a simple Gust of Wind spell. A creature closer in nature to a phase spider could be dealt with in similar ways- by waiting for it to enter the proper plane, or joining it on its own plane. Also, I would like to second tiercel's comment- how is it affecting you? A similar method of retaliation should work. Of course, this would require a sacrificial lamb, which could be a problem if your party is Good alignment and no one volunteers...
mbfu3k 08-04-05, 12:33 AM	Well, as Malibu Trojan points out, the "Revised" SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) available from the Wizards site actually says "incorporeal undead" instead of "incorporeal creatures" as well. I guess the hypertext SRD was based on the pre-revised version, or something. Thus, it seems pretty clear that WoTC meant exactly what they said, and non-undead incorporeal creatures do not in fact "wink out" within an antimagic field. As bizarre and seemingly nonsensical as that may seem.
Bob the Great 08-04-05, 12:58 AM	How is an incorporeal creature hurting you NONMAGICALLY? And if its that much of a problem, tell your archer to walk out of the anitmagic field, and fire arrows from a + 1 bow at the thing. And doesnt antimagic field turn off incorporeality. Heres a tip. move out of antimagic field. unless it casts the field at will or carries the field with it (in which case it is broken beyond all reason) it will have to leave the field to get you. then procede to thwack it. And also, just run away. incorporeal creatures tend to be slow. just outrun it. it cant magically find you. Failing that, get out of the field and teleport away.
seng3 08-04-05, 01:18 AM	How is an incorporeal creature hurting you NONMAGICALLY? And if its that much of a problem, tell your archer to walk out of the anitmagic field, and fire arrows from a + 1 bow at the thing. And doesnt antimagic field turn off incorporeality. Heres a tip. move out of antimagic field. unless it casts the field at will or carries the field with it (in which case it is broken beyond all reason) it will have to leave the field to get you. then procede to thwack it. And also, just run away. incorporeal creatures tend to be slow. just outrun it. it cant magically find you. Failing that, get out of the field and teleport away. Does Adamitium weapon works? At least 50% of the time?
Rulebook 08-04-05, 01:31 AM	of course not. where would you get a fool idea like that?
Malibu Trojan 08-04-05, 04:07 AM	How is an incorporeal creature hurting you NONMAGICALLY? And if its that much of a problem, tell your archer to walk out of the anitmagic field, and fire arrows from a + 1 bow at the thing. And doesnt antimagic field turn off incorporeality. Heres a tip. move out of antimagic field. unless it casts the field at will or carries the field with it (in which case it is broken beyond all reason) it will have to leave the field to get you. then procede to thwack it. And also, just run away. incorporeal creatures tend to be slow. just outrun it. it cant magically find you. Failing that, get out of the field and teleport away. I too would still like to know what kind of incorporeal monster this is that can make nonmagical attacks. Most incorporeal attacks (if not all) in Monster Manual are supernatural or spell-like and subject to antimagic. Once the arrow enters the field, it loses the enhancement bonus. Antimagic does not "turn off" the incorporeality unless the incorporeality comes from a spell (or supernatural ability or spell-like effect) or the monster description specifically says that it is a supernatural or spell-like ability. According to the Wizards SRD, nothing about incorporeality in itself is subject to antimagic.
Merestil Haye 08-04-05, 05:05 AM	(snip) unless it casts the field at will or carries the field with it (in which case it is broken beyond all reason) it will have to leave the field to get you. (snip)It cannot do anything but "carry the field with it" as you put it.Antimagic Field Abjuration Level: Clr 8, Magic 6, Protection 6, Sor/Wiz 6 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 10 ft. Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: See textAs you can see from the bolded line, the affected area is an emanation centred on the caster. It moves with the caster. On the subject of the creature existing in the field, I too find it wierd. It is possible that the DM is allowing the creature to cast AMF modified by the Extrordinary Spell Aim feat excluding himself from the area.
seng3 08-04-05, 05:44 AM	of course not. where would you get a fool idea like that? :P Its a 3.0 thing... Didn't know they change it in 3.5... Adamantine: Found only in meteorites and the rarest of veins in magical areas, this ultrahard metal adds to the quality of a weapon or suit of armor based on how much of the material is used. Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural enhancement bonus to attack and damage. Armor fashioned from adamantine has a natural enhancement bonus to AC. These bonuses do not stack with any other enhancement bonuses. Weapons and armor fashioned from adamantine are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor. Adamantine has a hardness of 20 and 40 hit points per inch of thickness. Enhancement Market Price Item Bonus Modifier ----------- ----- ------------ Light armor +1 +2,000 gp Medium armor +2 +5,000 gp Heavy armor +3 +10,000 gp Shield +1 +2,000 gp Weapon damage 1d4 or 1d6 +1 +3,000 gp Weapon damage 1d8, 1d10, or 1d12 +2 +9,000 gp INCORPOREALITY Spectres, wraiths, and a few other creatures lack physical bodies. Such creatures are insubstantial and can’t be touched by nonmagical matter or energy. Likewise, they cannot manipulate objects or exert physical force on objects. However, incorporeal beings have a tangible presence that sometimes seems like a physical attack against a corporeal creature. Incorporeal creatures are present on the same plane as the characters, and characters have some chance to affect them. Incorporeal creatures can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, by magic weapons, or by spells, spell-like effects, or supernatural effects. They are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. They are not burned by normal fires, affected by natural cold, or harmed by mundane acids. Even when struck by magic or magic weapons, an incorporeal creature has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source—except for a force effect or damage dealt by a ghost touch weapon. Incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, extra damage from being favored enemies, and from sneak attacks. They move in any direction (including up or down) at will. They do not need to walk on the ground. They can pass through solid objects at will, although they cannot see when their eyes are within solid matter. Incorporeal creatures hiding inside solid objects get a +2 circumstance bonus on Listen checks, because solid objects carry sound well. Pinpointing an opponent from inside a solid object uses the same rules as pinpointing invisible opponents (see Invisibility, below). Incorporeal creatures are inaudible unless they decide to make noise. The physical attacks of incorporeal creatures ignore material armor, even magic armor, unless it is made of force (such as mage armor or bracers of armor) or has the ghost touch ability. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Corporeal creatures cannot trip or grapple incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight. Incorporeal creatures do not leave footprints, have no scent, and make no noise unless they manifest, and even then they only make noise intentionally.
Nightwind 08-04-05, 11:47 AM	NEH-THALGGU (BRAIN COLLECTOR) Huge XXXXXXXXX (Extraplanar, Incorporeal) Hit Dice: XXX+XXX (XXX hp) Initiative: +XX (+X Dex, +X Superior Initiative) Speed: XXXX. or via dimension door AC: XX (–X size, +X Dex, +X deflection, +XX insight) Base Attack/Grapple: +XX/– Attack: Bite +XX (XXX + XX plus poison) melee Full Attack: Bite +XX (XXX + XX plus poison ) melee, XX head-tentacles +XX (XXX plus ability drain ) melee touch attack Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: Extract brains (ranged attack), poison, spells Special Qualities: Dimensional travel, DR XXX, incorporeal traits, amorphous physiology, manifest maw, SR XX, darkvision XXX ft. Saves: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Abilities: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Skills: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Feats: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Epic Feats: XX Climate/Terrain: Any Organization: Solitary Challenge Rating: XX Treasure: XXXXX Alignment: XXXXX Advancement: 33–66 HD (Gargantuan); 67–112 HD (Colossal) A creature whose brain has been harvested by a brain collector cannot be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected while the brain is in the creature, because the collector preserves and draws upon the soul and basic personality of the creature for as long as it retains the brain. Neh-thalggus’ own language is a silent sign language “spoken” with their writhing head-tentacles. They can also communicate telepathically with any creature that has a language within 100 feet. A neh-thalggu’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. COMBAT Poison (Ex): A neh-thalggu’s bite injects a debilitating poison (DC XX) that Damages the victim’s Constitution. He or she loses half his or her current Constitution immediately on a failed save and must save again 1 minute later or lose half of his or her remaining Constitution. If the character survives, he or she heals the ability Damage at the normal rate (1 point per day). The save DC is Constitution-based. Head-Tentacles (Ex): The long, whiplike tentacles that frame either side of a brain collector’s face can deliver a dangerous touch attack that, if successful, causes the target to dehydrate and wither (XXX points of desiccation Damage). XXXXXXXXXXXXX. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX. It can bring all ten tentacles to bear on a single target facing it or divide its attacks against up to ten targets that it threatens. Extract Brains (Sp): Once every XXX rounds, as a full-round action, a brain collector can extract the brain from a target creature in line of sight. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. The target gets a Will save (DC XX) to resist the extraction. The save DC is Intelligence-based. If the save fails, his or her brain is drawn out intact through the skull by extradimensional means and sucked up by the brain collector, lodging in an unused storage sac above and behind its eyes. If the save succeeds, he or she takes XXX points of Damage and is stunned for XX rounds. XXXXXXXXX.... Dimensional Travel (Sp): A brain collector’s preferred method of locomotion is via dimension door, which it can do as a quickened action, once per round. It can also use teleport without error or plane shift at will as a move-equivalent action. Spells (Sp): A fully grown brain collector can cast arcane spells as a 13th-level sorcerer (XXXXXXXXXXXXXX). Incorporeal: A neh-thalggu is not wholly in our reality but always remains partially extradimensional. Thus it can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, +1 or better weapons, magic, or psionics, with a 50% chance to ignore any Damage from a corporeal source. It can pass through solid objects at will, and its own attacks pass through armor (except for its bite attack, which is treated as if a corporeal attack). It always moves silently unless it chooses otherwise. Amorphous Physiology (Ex): A brain collector does not have fixed organs. As such, it is immune to critical hits, death from massive Damage, sneak attacks, and coup de grace. Manifest Maw: Though it is an incorporeal creature, a neh-thalggu can manifest its mouth in corporeal form as a standard action. While so manifested, the mouth can deliver bite attacks against corporeal creatures or pick up objects. The mouth bites as if it had Str 35. Feats: A neh-thalggu gains Power Attack as a bonus feat, even though it has no Strength score. ----------------------------------------------------- Casting as a 13th Level Sorcerer it is able to cast Anti-Magic Field. Because it is "Incorporeal" and not "Incorporeal Undead" it does not wink out within it's own Anti-Magic Field. The attacking in general has had nothing to do with the combat up to the point that it brought the Anti-Magic Field into the equation. The actual combat is now at the point where the Field is in effect and the creature is about to get down and dirty in melee. I feel confident that the player Malum will not find out anymore information than is located here about the creature so I do not mind posting this information for discussion purposes. I am also confident that the out of game information will not be used in game as the players in this campaign are great when it comes to that. We will be continuing the combat next week as it was stopped midway for time reasons. The information listed is information that the party knows or has inferred through use of Skills, Hyper-Cognition and/or Lore Checks. I also would like to be sure I am using the Monster's abilities correctly.
Malum 08-04-05, 12:20 PM	Heya guys that would be my all powerful DM there. ( bows down) So about the conjuration working in antimagic. Does anyone have any details concerning if it works/ how it works/ and can you use them from inside out?
gilim 08-04-05, 12:46 PM	nightwind: it doesnt state in the description what the basis for the creatures capacity to be incoporeal is, but it can be presumed to be a supernatural ability and not an extraordinary one. In which case it would not be able to be present in the prime material plane in the area covered by the antimagic field. If you want to skip that and just have them overlap, then with another hypercognition, they could work out which plane the monster is coterminous with and plane shift there. In which case the AF would render all the powers mute, but the creature coporeal in that dimension. This is a plan based on fighting against ghosts. Ghosts also use a supernatural ability to manifest and would not be able to be present in an antimagic field. I recall the players are 18+ tho? give em hell:) itll take them a while but theyll eventually work something out. They just need to think outside the box a bit. Watch mixing AF tho, its one trick that the rules arent well adapted to getting around. You end up with wierd loopholes like this one your in. luck:) -sam
dedicated 08-04-05, 12:50 PM	Isn't manifesting a supernatural ability? If so it can't be done in an active antimagic field
Griff_Goodbeard 08-04-05, 12:53 PM	Nightwind, first off, cool monster. I do have some questions. It seems to be an epic monster (and I'm not wholly familiar w/ epic) did you create it? AFAICT your breaking new ground with this monster. I can't remember any creature with an (Ex) incorporeal touch attack -the tentacles, or a "ghost touch" bite attack that is (Ex.). All incorporeal attacks I know of are (Su.) and would be unavailable in an AMF. That's where your players are having a problem, you've added a new mechanic, without giving them a way to counter it.
Starmage21 08-04-05, 12:55 PM	Plane-Shift to the Ethereal Plane (Or use etherealness). It is stated within the RAW that only [Force] effects extend into the ethereal. If your wizard was to cast Etherealness before being subjected to the AMF, he would be on the Ethereal Plane and not subject to the AMF's affects.
Nagol 08-04-05, 12:56 PM	Psionics (in a psionics are different setting) Epic spells (you said some people made it to 21 already) Force cage and wait readied to strike when the antimagic field fades in a couple of hours. If you get lucky, you might be able to prevent it from getting off another spell. You'll have a couple of hours to prepare spells like Forbiddence and such to prevent qucik and easy escapes.
Scion of Coldshard 08-04-05, 01:02 PM	All incorporeal attacks I know of are (Su.) and would be unavailable in an AMF. I'd love to see where this is said ;) So far as I can tell the incorporeal creatuers in the monstrous manual seem to treat their attacks as something much more akin to a natural weapon than a (su) ability.
Griff_Goodbeard 08-04-05, 01:31 PM	I'd love to see where this is said ;) So far as I can tell the incorporeal creatuers in the monstrous manual seem to treat their attacks as something much more akin to a natural weapon than a (su) ability. I checked out the SRD, specters, and wraiths do ability damage with their touch which is (Su.), but I could not find anywhere that it explicitly stated that an "incorporeal touch" is a (Su). However: Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical. They are, however, not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. How does a monster non magically desiccate something when it can't even physically affect them? It seems to me that it would have to be supernatural. Another thing I noticed is that there isn't a single monster in the SRD that is incorporeal and [b]not[/] undead. I know that there have been monster's in some of the newer books that are, but is it possible that in the definition of antimagic it states that incorporeal undead wink out, because there was no other type of incorporeal creature when that definition was written? Perhaps a question for the sage. Apparently it's not RAW, but I think it's unfair to allow an incorporeal monster to affect corporeal targets in an AMF when the converse isn't allowed.
mbfu3k 08-04-05, 01:32 PM	So about the conjuration working in antimagic. Does anyone have any details concerning if it works/ how it works/ Any Conjuration (Creation) spell that has SR: No is unaffected by an antimagic field because the material created by the spell is considered non-magical once brought in to being. In 3.0, the only such spells of which I'm aware are Minor and Major Creation. In 3.5, this was expanded to include spells such as Acid Arrow and, with the introduction of Complete Arcane, the various Orb spells. However, since in your particular case the creature is also incorporeal, this means that none of these spells will work if they deal energy damage (such as fire, cold, electricity, acid, or sonic). Force, however, will work fine. Conveniently, there is a Force Orb spell in Complete Arcane. Thus, it seems that your best strategy would be to Forcecage the creature and pelt it with Force Orbs, if you have them. Other than that, I don't see any way of dealing damage to this creature short of Disjunctioning the AMF (for which you only have a small percent chance of success). and can you use them from inside out? There is some debate as to whether you can cast spells within an AMF and have them take effect outside of it. However, most people (myself included) are convinced that you cannot cast within an AMF if for no other reason than that AMF blocks Line of Effect.
Scion of Coldshard 08-04-05, 02:32 PM	How does a monster non magically desiccate something when it can't even physically affect them? It seems to me that it would have to be supernatural. I dont know, how does a troll regenerate so rapidly from anything that is not fire or acid? You can literally hit them for thousands upon thousands of damage and within a few rounds they can be back up eating your intestines. Both seem to be 'nonmagical' however. Also, how can dragons fly? They are 'way' too heavy to do anything remotely like that in our world. Again, 'nonmagical'. D&D just seems to work under different rules ;) Apparently it's not RAW, but I think it's unfair to allow an incorporeal monster to affect corporeal targets in an AMF when the converse isn't allowed. Well sure, although there are ways around it, they are just very difficult. It does seem unfair, but then it also seems unfair that the lich you just fought will be back tomorrow and there really isnt much you can do about it. Or a ghost with a few appropriate choices that basically cannot be permanently killed. This guy likely has a 'very' high CR attatched to him and the ECL of this encounter is massive. But then, it really sounds like the party should be able to get away from the guy fairly easily once they figure out that they cant hurt him.
Griff_Goodbeard 08-04-05, 02:50 PM	I dont know, how does a troll regenerate so rapidly from anything that is not fire or acid? You can literally hit them for thousands upon thousands of damage and within a few rounds they can be back up eating your intestines. I seem to remember something something in the 1st ed. MM about Trolls regenerating because their metabolism was such that what would take a human a week to heal naturally, they could heal in a few seconds. It also made mention of the fact that they had to eat almost constantly to maintain that metabolism (which was why they were so dangerous ;) ) Also, how can dragons fly? They are 'way' too heavy to do anything remotely like that in our world. Again, 'nonmagical'. There was a special about "what if dragons existed" and the pseudo-science of flight, fire breathing, ect. on animal planet a couple of months ago, I remember thinking their explaination of flight it was a bit implausable, but not impossible. A creature that is incorporeal can put it's hand through a wall without affecting it. So when it strikes a living creature with it's touch, what causes the person harm? So sort of dessicating energy? To me that's supernatual. Look I 'm not saying there's anything wrong with the monster (I think it is excedingly cool). I just don't think it would be able to function within an AMF.
Scion of Coldshard 08-04-05, 02:57 PM	To me all three of those seem much more than extraordinary, they seem down right supernatural. So I really dont see a difference there. Still though, an incorporeal medium sized creature cannot make it through a 15' thick wall either, they are simply unable to pass through. So maybe they do interact with matter on some level, and on that level they are able to damage beings ::shrugs::
Shandrakor 08-09-05, 12:57 PM	The only thing I can come up with for an opponent's AMF is a Cheater of Mystra build; if you don't have it by now, however, you might be out of luck. Finding the plane it's coterminus with and fighting it there is probably a good idea.
Lafing Cat 08-09-05, 03:30 PM	First: Initiate of Mystra or Invoke Magic(Lords of Madness). Second: Trans-dimensional spell(CA). In all honesty, even Invoke Magic by itself will let you kill the thing, but the 50% miss chance would be very annoying. Trans-diminsional spell is awesome though. Even works on people in Rope Trick, Bags of Holding, and MMM.
Phrennzy 08-09-05, 04:38 PM	That God Awful creature was first seen in Castle Amber (though it had much different stats). It's in one of the Monster books (MMII, MMIII or FF). The DM didn't make it up. Best bet is to either run, or jump to the Etheral plane to fight it's corporeal body there.