Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Osprey424 08-16-05, 03:23 PM	So...I have run across an interesting issue regarding the power of epic magics in general, and whether or not an antimagic field could suppress them. Here's the background: - Detect Magic lists extraordinary auras to include spells and magic items with caster level 21+ or spell level 10+. In parentheses, in this same category, it names deities along with spells of 10th level+, and artifacts along with spells of caster level 21+. This suggests that spells of 10th level and higher are on par with deific powers, and magic items with caster level 21st or higher are on par with artifacts - which seems pretty reasonable, given that such epic magic items are often more potent than many artifacts. The only technical difference is whether or not PC's can craft the item, not its actual level of power. - Antimagic Field suppresses all supernatural and magical effects within its area of effect, with the exception of the powers of deities and artifacts. So the main question is obvious: do 10th level and higher spells, and epic magic items with caster level 21+, ignore an antimagic field's effects? Are epic magic items with such caster levels treated as artifacts for such purposes? From a game balance point of view, I think it's quite reasonable that epic spells and magic items are generally beyond the power of an antimagic field to suppress. But I am very curious what other DM's, players, and especially the writers at WOTC think about this whole issue. - Osprey
Seeker95 08-16-05, 04:36 PM	Although I don't use Epic Rules, I am comfortable with an AMF working at all levels... even Epic. I suspect, however, that the Epic Rules have something different to say about that.
kevmarq 08-16-05, 06:17 PM	I don't have my book to give the complete answer but the summary is something like this. Epic spells get a caster level check to be effective in an Anti-magic field. I would apply the same to items using the crafters caster level. Hopefully I am remembering things correctly :D
Immoral Sniper 08-16-05, 06:25 PM	Your answer lies within the SRD: Antimagic field does not automatically suppress epic spells as it does standard spells. Instead, each time an epic spell is subject to an antimagic field, make a dispel check as a 20th-level caster (1d20 + 20). The epic spell has a DC of 11 + the epic spell’s spellcaster level. If the suppression check is successful, the epic spell is suppressed like any other spell. If the dispel check is unsuccessful, the epic spell functions normally. - Reference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spellsIntro.htm#dispellingEpicSpellsAndA ntimagicField)
Osprey424 08-16-05, 11:56 PM	Originally Posted by SRD Antimagic field does not automatically suppress epic spells as it does standard spells. Instead, each time an epic spell is subject to an antimagic field, make a dispel check as a 20th-level caster (1d20 + 20). The epic spell has a DC of 11 + the epic spell’s spellcaster level. If the suppression check is successful, the epic spell is suppressed like any other spell. If the dispel check is unsuccessful, the epic spell functions normally. Well, that answers a small part of the question, re. epic spells. But there are non-epic spells (i.e., metamagic ones) that are effectively 10th level and above, most notably those using the epic Heighten Spell feat in conjunction with the Improved Spell Capacity feat(s) to allow 10th, 11th, 12th level spells and beyond. This still begs the more basic question: what about magic items created with a caster level of 21st and higher? Are these to be treated as artifacts in regard to antimagic fields, or should they be treated like epic spells as outlined above? If artifacts are indeed "more exempt" than epic magic items, why is this? What exactly makes them immune to such effects while epic items, often more powerful than "artifacts", are subject to a caster level check and have only a chance to resist the effects of antimagic? Osprey
The Simbul 08-17-05, 01:39 AM	The reason why the Detect Magic spell description labels spells with an effective spell level of 10th or higher being of "Deific level" is because in the 3.0 core rules no spellcaster can cast a spell whose true spell level is 10th, and no caster level would go above 21. Even in a core rules only campaign in 3.5 and it's epic subsection, this still isnt possible, since Improved Heighten Spell isnt included, and a spells cast with Improved Spell Capacity (whether they are affected by metamagic or not) are still 9th level and lower spells for all purposes related to spell level (other than the spell slot needed to cast them). That said it is reasonable for Epic Magic items to have the opportunity to bypass antimagic, simply for the reason that a 30th level spellcaster could use Epic Fortify seed spell to grant themselves DR 100/magic, and then use Antimagic Fields to make themselves immune to 99.9% of all attack forms, since the AMF would supress the magic weapon but not the spell.
Seeker95 08-17-05, 08:45 AM	But there are non-epic spells (i.e., metamagic ones) that are effectively 10th level and above, most notably those using the epic Heighten Spell featWith the exception of Heighten Spell, metamagic does not change the level of the spell. So for those that occupy 10th level slots but are not heightened, they are not "epic level". For those that have been Heightened, treat them as you would any other spell naturally occupying said slot.